Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
Articles |The FORUM |Law Library |Videos | Fraudsters & Co. |File Complaints |How they STEAL |Search MSFraud |Contact Us
~beenawhile
Hi all,

Last month my loan pay off amount was $54,000.00

this month after getting another loan payoff it is now $57,000.00

Then they tell me that that $57k figure is only good until the 21st of the month.

What will happen on the 21st?

and why after ALL of these years are they JUST NOW raising the price of my pay off balance?

It has ALWAYS BEEN THE AMOUNT OWED ON THE PRINCIPAL BALANCE, WHAT MAKES THEM SAY I OWE THEM MORE NOW, AFTER ALL THIS TIME?

NEED HELP.

Thanks,
~beenawhile
Quote 0 0
Moose
Several possibilities, including things like escrow resets or fees, or even when your last payment was applied to P&I. 

To determine how the payoff is calculated, you'd have to look into the terms and conditions of the note itself.  One of the methods used is commonly referred to as "the rule of 78's."

Moose

Quote 0 0
Moose
Forgot to add - your balance is not your "payoff" amount.

Moose

Quote 0 0
~beenawhile
thank you Moose,
I could scream.......

We are not supposed to have ESCROW account.

Though, an escrow account has always been set up by them so they could rake in the money, (from us and Ins. Co.)

Like i said, they've always put an escrow there, that is not needed, and NOT PART OF OUR ORIG. MORT. CONTRACT.

P/O has never been different from Actual Loan balance.

Our loan documents, state that payoff can be done at any time, without penalty.
God, I'm gonna have to go get all the freakin docs, out again.


I sent them a letter last month, asking them for information.

they inturn,
1.  Retaliated, by not sending me my monthly billing statement
2.  by not sending the payment confirmation sheet
3.  by adding a phrase to their "online" monthly billing statements, that has NEVER APPEARED on my PHYSICAL COPIES"!!!!
it says (this is an attempt to collect a debt and any info. obtained will be used for that purpose.)

Okay so why would their ONLINE monthly Bill. Statement,  Say that and not my PHYSICAL monthly copy?

4. AND BY RAISING MY P/O AMOUNT BY $3K

So, I suppose it will be even higher next month?  

I hate this, everybit of it, too bad for them though, they don't know HOW LOUD, I can scream!





Quote 0 0
Ohio
Request a breakdown of the amount....EMC is famous for putting charges on there like

1) fees to compute the payoff
2) fax fees whether they fax'd anything or not.
3) corporate advance fees
4) late fees-- Note:*When I was with EMC my monthly statement did not reflect owing ANY late fees. When the pay-off was computed there were more than $2,000 in late fees tacked on. 
5) Forced place insurance premium

When trying to refinance you may only have a limited # of days to get everything done to get the promised rate........it's a bit hard to dispute all the bogus pay-off additions in that time frame.....they know this...the bank you are refinancing with knows this.......they don't care...they probably split the profit between them.
Quote 0 0
Many subprime loans also provide for a prepayment penalty if you seek to pay off more than 20% of the principal in any given year.  This oppressive provision makes it EXPRENSIVE for borrowers to REFINANCE to a loan with less onerous terms.  One subprime note I recently examined has a provision providing for SIX MONTHS' INTEREST as an additional prepayment penalty.

You r mortgage balance would NOT reflect such a prepayment penalty.  If you ask the lender for a "loan payoff amount", a prepayment penalty WOULD be added in.
Quote 0 0
Way To Go

Another factor is that interest on mortgages is normally paid in the arrears.  This means, for example, if your loan funded on the first of December, then your first payment would be due on January first.  The interest portion of your January 1st payment is actually the interest for December.  For example, your unpaid principal balance on the 15th of any given month does not include the interest for that month.  Therefore, your payoff will be the unpaid principal balance, plus 15 days of interest.

 

Hope this helps and doesn’t add to your confusion.   

Quote 0 0
~beenawhile
Okay WTG, WAR, OHIO,
You've setteled my nerves a little, for the time being.
I've got more to post, but have to finish dinner.

Will post more info after dinner.
Thank you.


Quote 0 0
~beenawhile
Ohio wrote:
Request a breakdown of the amount....EMC is famous for putting charges on there like
They have of course tacked on their own policies, Flood and H. O. Ins. and these policies are not supposed to be "Interest" accuring policies. According to our loan docs.
 
We have had to pay Escorw fees that they tacked on, in order to keep our home. They know this and have backed us up against a wall, as usual....

 & course there are the other fees, 
Fees, Fees, Fees, and more Fees! I don't want to pay them for their fees, and concuctions anymore.
 
Last month, our payoff was the amount of our loan balance, this month it has gone up by $3,000.
HOW SO? and should i expect for it to go up again around the 21st?

When trying to refinance you may only have a limited # of days to get everything done to get the promised rate........it's a bit hard to dispute all the bogus pay-off additions in that time frame.....they know this...the bank you are refinancing with knows this.......they don't care...they probably split the profit between them.  We don't want to re-fi, we were approved for a re-fi last year, at a lower fixed, (than the current fixed they forged on the Orig loan docs.) and didn't go with the re-fi, for several reasons. So it's safe to say , that if i request a break down of all the fees they are charging us, as to why the P/O is higher than last month, they will charge just for their service of supplying this information.
 
God Almighty~~I hate being SERVICED!



William A. Roper, Jr. wrote:
Many subprime loans also provide for a prepayment penalty if you seek to pay off more than 20% of the principal in any given year.  This oppressive provision makes it EXPRENSIVE for borrowers to REFINANCE to a loan with less onerous terms.  One subprime note I recently examined has a provision providing for SIX MONTHS' INTEREST as an additional prepayment penalty.

You r mortgage balance would NOT reflect such a prepayment penalty.  If you ask the lender for a "loan payoff amount", a prepayment penalty WOULD be added in.
SERVICER States, both with Customer Rep. and the automated recording,  states something to the effect, that
 
"If "SERVICER" has made an error in "GOOD FAITH" in computing the amount for the pay off, whether mathematical, computer based, operator error, or otherwise, that "SERVICER" has the right to charge any fees that they feel necessary for correcting any amounts, that borrower claims are incorrect, or not due and to be included with the final pay off amount.
 
WHAT KIND OF BULL CRAP IS THIS? If they made an error then by God, they should fix their error, FREE OF CHARGE TO OUR ACCOUNT.
 
IF THEY DON'T FIX THEIR ERROR, this shows intent to DEFRAUD.
If they do fix their error and CHARGE OUR ACCOUNT, THEN THIS SHOWS INTENT TO COLLECT FUNDS INTENTIONALLY THAT WERE NOT DUE TO THEM.
 
Our contract states that we may pay off our loan at anytime without any prepayment penalty.
 





Way To Go wrote:

 

Hope this helps and doesn’t add to your confusion.   Well, yeah this does help, more "proof" as to their intentional bogus collection of fees, by raising the P/O balance. Here is why.

 

Another factor is that interest on mortgages is normally paid in the arrears.  This means, for example, if your loan funded on the first of December, then your first payment would be due on January first.  The interest portion of your January 1st payment is actually the interest for December.  For example, your unpaid principal balance on the 15th of any given month does not include the interest for that month.  Therefore, your payoff will be the unpaid principal balance, plus 15 days of interest.

 

(Okay the blue font is not important; except to explain parts of this and to  make my point easier to understand so please skip past the blue font, and continue reading when it becomes purple again.)

 

We paid our first payment on Feb. 16

Our First payment wasn't due until March 6

(but for those of you who know we missed 3 months payment, and filed bankruptcy read further below in blue)

 

So in assuming that we have paid our payments every month, then what you're saying would not be  effective correct?

 

I knew our payment wasn't due for at least a near month, but I sent the 1st payment in thinking Ha ha, We're gonna get a start on this bad boy, and get the amount brought down very quickly. The next month, I paid again, (and even an extra payment to principal) a few days before the due date, so I was effectively what an entire month ahead almost? OR over a month and a quarter (depending on how you want to look at it)

 

Alright, here's a little story,

We were having financial difficulties, We were still current with all of our payments, but very tight situation financially.

 

We called and said our payment is going to be a little late this month, they said Oh? Well we can help you by doing a deferred payment plan, for 3 months and they could add it to the end of the loan. Instead of our final payment being due in June of 2031 it would be due Sept 2031. 

 

They also said this would be without any EXTRA interest accumulating. We thought man that's awesome! Just what we needed! So they faxed us a "DEFERRERD PAYMENT PLAN" document.

 

We signed it, but I filled in all the blank spots with the the dates, and info, they had told us during our recent conversation. We faxed it back. They said No here's another fax.... "Just sign it"

 

 Again, it was blank, so I filled in the missing areas, and drew lines through the other spots that didn't pertain to the agreement we had made via phone, we signed it and sent it back in.

 

Once again they said NO! "Just Sign the document, and don't fill in the spaces, that's our job, and has to have our handwriting on it! If you fill in the spaces again, WE CAN NOT DO THE DEFERRED PAYMENT PLAN FOR YOU!"

So we signed the blank document, and sent it in in desperation not to become "deadbeats", and in hopes that we could financially recover.

 

Guess what??? Three months later they come'a'callin' it was 5 days, after our due date, and I was getting ready to call them, to make the payment for that month, when they called, and said "OKAY, YOUR 3 MONTHS ARE UP! WHERE'S OUR MONEY?"  They wanted all of their money or no money, I said but that's not what we signed, "OH YES YOU DID!" after a lengthy insultive convo with them, and crying my eyes out, begging them.......... they still said No, give us all the payments or we take everything.

 

Chapter 13 was our only option at that time, so thats what we did. 3 payments behind on mortgage, were worked into our Chpt. 13 repayment plan, so the 3 months that we didnt pay on  deffered payment plan, WERE INFACT Eventually PAID! (thorugh bankruptcy)

 

So now in saying all of that, it means, that effectively.......... WE have never missed a payment.......... Meaning if there have been 132 months of payment  due on our loan. They have recieved 132 payments!!!

 

 

So if all payments have been made to this very date, shouldn't i still be ahead, therefore positively effecting the P/O amount of our loan?

 

And also taking into consideration that in one years time they forced us to pay them 16.5 mortg payments. another year, 14.5, and so forth.

 

Also, please take into consideration the above does not include the other many ways they have fleeced us.

Including all the Attorneys fees they ever charged that they forced us to pay, Or the Escrows, with multiple policies of H.O. and Flood per year.

Somtimes even charged 3 times in a year for one policy. Monthly BPOS,

They even took the payments they received from the Chpt 13 trustee and used that amount, to show as a PAY OUT that they made.

 

That means WOW they got to keep, the money the chpt. 13 trustee sent them, AND then charge us the same amount! ( since they have it showing as a Pay out ) I discovered this when correlating our Final chapter 13 repayment plan, with their Account History Pages.

 

Sorry it was more info than any of you needed to know.... But didn't want those who knew we were behind on payments & in bkrptcy to think I was lying here, when I said, they've gotten all the monthly payments that have ever been due.  ~whew whadda mouth full.

Quote 0 0
Write a reply...