Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
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Our home is being foreclosed on jan.7 th, Deutsche Bank is listed as Trustee on the legal foreclosure documents.  When we originally got the mortgage in may 06, it was with Long Beach Mortgage Co. which I soon learned was owned by? Washington Mutual who we made our payments to from the beginning.  We were never told that we would be making the payments to Washington Mutual,   Washington Mutual will not agree to modify our loan from a 10.9 and rising interest rate to one that we can afford.  We only took the loan because we were promised that we could refinance into a fixed rate when our credit got better within 6 months.  With late payment fee's attorney fees and our inability to make the $3000 per month mortgage payment we now owe WHOMEVER something like $345,000 on our $292,000 original amount.  I don't have money for a lawyer and I feel as though we are victims of somekind of faud on this and our prior loan with Countrywide and Novastar where we also learned how it feels to pay a $30,800 prepayment penalty.  It feels like we have been robbed over the last 3-4 years of thousands of dollars.  Where do we start to fight these people for the money they stold from us, as well as the home they appear to be taking from us.
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Rick.
 
These are difficult situations with such a short amount of time. However, check your county records. See what's been posted there.
 
You said you initiated the mortgage with Long Beach. Their scumsuckers like the rest. How does Deutsche come into the picture? Were they assigned the note? Are they acting as Trustee for LBM?
 
I know in my case there was a servcicer involved. So its important to determine Deutsche Banks involvement. It's also crucial to find out who owns this note currently. If Deutsche bank was assigned this note were you notified? Did they record the assignment in county records? Did they notify you of such happenings? If your debt is assigned their suppose to send you a good bye letter/ then a hello letter. From each party.
 
In my case I got neither. No assignment was recorded either. They simply tried to do a successor trustee thing saying that Wells Fargo actually owned. Which has been proven in court that they don't. Nor have they been able to produce in a yr and a half.
 
This is starting basis. You don't have alot of time. But LBM should be able to tell you who actually owns your note? Who did they receive monies from?
 
To go from LBM to Wash Mututal to Deutsche should have recordings somewhere. If none your best bet is the telephone and talk with them all. Also maybe pull your credit bureau report to see whose reporting the debt.
 
Since you don't have money and there's no guarantee that you'll get the right info before sale you may need to see about filing a banko for protection. You don't need an attorney to do this. But if you go this route there's different things you have to decide as well.
 
If you file chp 13 you can keep the house and reorganize your debts if your financially capable of doing such. The cost to file is usually $250 whether you file chp 13 or 7. If your desire is to keep the home the arreages go into a separate plan to pay the past due amounts. Then you still have to make your monthly mortgage pymts. The arreage plan usually covers a period of 36-60 mnths.
 
But they also consider your income/dependents into these equations. So if you try to file a chp 7 they could bump you into a chp 13 if you make to much. If you don't want the home and just want to start over entirely if your income is right chp 7 could be the way to go.
 
But you may not have the money to obtain other housing if you go this route since Wash Mutual is being hard about the modification.
 
We will all do our best to assist you.
 
God Bless You and the frame of Mentality you must be in. But you can prevail.
 
Kathy




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Kathy,
Thanks for the information and the support, this has been going on for over a year, and the stress i'm surprised has not killed me yet.  The home has been in my family for 70 years and I feel horrible about leaving it, but I cannot afford $3000 per month.  We have a place to live should we need it, but of course it would be temporary.  When all those people lost their homes either in floods or fires or disasters of some kind and you see their distraught faces, you start to get the picture......but its over and they begin to heal, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your support and for your kind words, I wish you and everyone else a Happy New Year.
Sincerely,
Rick

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Read the first paragraph of the intoduction here:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/DANNPDF.pdf

Demand in writing that they provide the full trail of assignments of the note and mortgage.  I would do certified mail as well as fax and email *and* show up at the sale with the letter and take the time to object.  The Court might grant time to clear.  You can check in to filing an action, but you don't have much time.

there's never a guarantee, but this may slow the process and give you enough time to get a negotiator in place.

By default, you're "the enemy" because you breached the contract.  WAMU and its employees aren't particularly interested in helping you unless that's the most profitable route.

if they can be shown that it's more profitable let you keep the house and make reduced payments, then the lender/servicer has a contractual obligation with the note holder to take that route.  that's how loss mit works. 

i sent you an email with my toll free number.  consult is free, and there's tons of information out on the internet on this subject.  I'm not a very good web developer, but I do ad content every day.

GotMortgageLates.com

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Assuming that someone knew what they were doing (a consumer protection attorney should be able to handle this easily) an Ex Parte Motion for Temporary Enjoinment could be written, filed and have a ruling from a Judge in less than 24 hours. If a favorable ruling comes back, it should grant you enough time to mount a defense - or offense should one be warranted.

Be extremely cautious of who you talk to and who you hire to handle this process. Do as much background on potential hires as possible - including any attorneys. "Loss mitigators" won't necessarily have any kind of degree or license or even formal education to back up their claims. Make sure you ask about training, education and references before giving anyone too much info OR a check. Certified Public Accountants with Certified Fraud Examiner status (CPA/CFE) of Forensic Accountants are the best place to start but they most likely won't be cheap.

Bottom line - CYA and document everything that you do in this process. The paper trail is the only thing that you're going to have to back you up as time goes on.
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As it is still before business hours on the west coast I have not yet been able to corroborate any of this information. It is merely what is available via the internet which we all know is questionable at best at times. Do your own research in order to formulate the best informed opinion before you take my advice. This is strictly for demonstrative purposes only. No animals were harmed during this research. Your mileage may vary.

GotMortgageLates.com

This would be a good example of several things. 1.) The amount of time it takes to do some quick research 2.) Why you want to take that amount of time in the first place.

Granted, the poster was upfront with their lack of "web skills" but, regardless of the situation that I'm in, if someone looking for my business can't be bothered to take the time to double check their site and make sure that everything legible, never mind professional, then that's Red Flag #1 for me.

RF#2 - nowhere did I see a disclosure of exactly with whom you are doing business on the site. The best that I found was "Susanatgotmortgagelates.com"  and an 800 # I believe. Unless you take the, well 20 minutes now with typing.
 
RF #4 - When the name and registered telephone number of a website purporting to help homeowners in distress is found in a REAL ESTATE LISTING such as this: (edited by msf)
as the contact agent it makes me wonder. If the link doesn't work run the telephone number through Google and locate the entry entitled "Google Base: Remodeled Northgate Gem" and click the "cached" link.

Overall, including typing and spell checking, this exercise took me 40 minutes. Only a homeowner can determine whether the effort is worth it or not or what this information tells you.


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Mike, Thank you for your time and information.
Rick

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gosh, Mike,

Your research fell just a little teeny tiny bit short. 

I OWN THE HOUSE IN THAT LISTING.  

You're not a realtor, by chance, are you?  Mad that you didn't get the listing?  Or are you in the market for a Northgate gem?  I worked hard on that house.  I've owned it for many years.  Do I not have the right to put my own house up for sale?

Your claim that I might have *any* affiliation with Assist to Sell is a bold-faced lie on your part which, along with posting extensive personal information about me, speaks to your malicious nature.  Cobblestone was bought out by CMG and I never worked for either of them, either, although they've literally begged me to.

I'm effective with the lenders because of my professionalism and my contacts.  Being angry and malicious doesn't solve anything.

And I did, indeed, disclose in a lengthy conversation this morning after being awakened at 5:01 A.M. that:

I'm licensed in California;
I have 5 years in the mortgage lending business (which ended in 2005)
I have a 15-YEAR LEGAL BACKGROUND and that
I'M NOT CHARGING A DIME. 

IN FACT, I PAID FOR THE CALL. 

Rick asked my opinion.  I encouraged him to act.  He doesn't have much time and he might not have the money for any of your suggestions.   He also gave me his home address.  Should I post it just because I know it and know where it's listed on the internet?

No one asked you to post my personal information.  It's a malcious act and discourages people like me who really, truly, simply want to help.  





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Susan Kahler wrote:
gosh, Mike,

Your research fell just a little teeny tiny bit short. 

I OWN THE HOUSE IN THAT LISTING.  

You're not a realtor, by chance, are you?  Mad that you didn't get the listing?  Or are you in the market for a Northgate gem?  I worked hard on that house.  I've owned it for many years.  Do I not have the right to put my own house up for sale?

Congratulations on being a homeowner, Ms Kahler. No, I'm not a realtor. Wouldn't want to be one in this market. And, no, I have no interest in residing in California at the moment. I find it odd that, at a time when you are apparently somewhat irritated with me that you would take the time to attempt to sell me real estate but if that works for you as a sales tactic then by all means stick with it. And you absolutely have the right to do whatever you like with your home.

Your claim that I might have *any* affiliation with Assist to Sell is a bold-faced lie on your part which, along with posting extensive personal information about me, speaks to your malicious nature.  Cobblestone was bought out by CMG and I never worked for either of them, either, although they've literally begged me to.
 
Last Names Beginning With G through L
Susan Kahler, Cobblestone Mortgage Company

Apparently, the above listing somehow isn't supposed to mean what I am interpreting it to mean Ms. Kahler? 

I'm effective with the lenders because of my professionalism and my contacts.  Being angry and malicious doesn't solve anything.

I congratulate you on your apparent success in your selected field, Ms. Kahler, but the only anger or maliciousness that I am seeing is that being displayed by you. I was feeling neither at the time that I made the initial post nor do I feel either now. Interesting choice of words though.

And I did, indeed, disclose in a lengthy conversation this morning after being awakened at 5:01 A.M. that:

I'm licensed in California;
I have 5 years in the mortgage lending business (which ended in 2005)
I have a 15-YEAR LEGAL BACKGROUND and that
I'M NOT CHARGING A DIME. 

IN FACT, I PAID FOR THE CALL.
Me, I'm partial to phones that you can turn off so that sort of thing doesn't happen. Then again, I do my best to make sure that I don't post any information that I don't want to be public knowledge on the internet, Additionally, it might be a good idea to disclose the above information before you solicit victims of Mortgage Servicing Fraud for business. It might even be a strong selling point to MSF victims and/or homeowners about to lose their homes to foreclosure for various other reasons.
 
"Paige Taylor" didn't have any trouble shilling for you over at the Implod-O-Meter while she was trolling for Loan Originators there.

Rick asked my opinion.  I encouraged him to act.  He doesn't have much time and he might not have the money for any of your suggestions.   He also gave me his home address.  Should I post it just because I know it and know where it's listed on the internet?

I would think that posting potential client's information would be a rather serious breach of trust and I wouldn't even think of making the threat publicly out of concern for what even making the implication would do to my business reputation. Obviously though, you have to make your own decisions about your business practices.

No one asked you to post my personal information.  It's a malcious act and discourages people like me who really, truly, simply want to help.
 
Your false accusations and posting of my personal information appears to be specifically designed to incite anger and rage towards me personally of a caliber that would cause someone in foreclosure to come to my home to physically harm me.  You might as well have posted a map.

All of the information that I have previously found has, in some manner, shape or form either been used directly by you on the internet or in some professional reference to you by your business associates. Likewise, that information has been made publicly available on the internet. I did not choose to put any of it there after finding it under a rock somewhere. It was posted either directly by yourself, as in your real estate listing(s), your website registry information or by other business associates of yours. In other words, all of the information contained herein has been previously made available somewhere on the internet by either yourself or business associates of yours.

My numberous requests that you take down my personal information have gone unansweared.  This is my final request:  REMOVE YOUR POST AND ITS REFERENCES IMMEDIATELY.  THE ACCUSATIONS ARE FALSE AND THE INFORMATION IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO CAUSE ME HARM AND AT THE VERY LEAST INTENTIONALLY INFLICT EMOTIONAL DISTRESS.

You, your agents/employees have caused me to become physically ill, terrified in my own home, and unable to sleep. 

As moderator of the site, you, your associates, affiliates, owners, agents and employees are, indeed, responsible for your malicious actions, for the harm you are inflicting, and for any harm that may result from your actions.
You apparently have me confused with the owners and/or moderators of this forum, Ms. Kahler of which I am neither. No "accusations" have been made by anyone other than yourself.





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oh come along now
oh come along now,

There is a HUGE conflict of interest, I'm sure the Board of Realtors might find very very interesting hear!

Number one, I very much agree you have violated the "Client Realtor" Relationship. That is a BIG NO NO within the Realtors ETHICS CODES!


Number two, A VERY Concerning
**CONFLICT OF INTEREST**  has arisen here, on your part.

You are offering FORECLOSURE HELP? To Home Owners in need? AND YOU ARE A REALTOR????????

Well what this does, is allows you to get contacts from people calling you for "supposed" help. BINGO! You then have their Names, Addresses, The MORTGAGE COMPANY your clients are dealing with. (THE *CLIENTS* YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING REMEMBER?)

BANGO! This now allows you to *pretend* that you are trying to help YOUR NON-REALTY RELATED"client" with their situation & keep them from Foreclosure, WHILE you *could* be on the side lines in phone calls with the said MORTGAGE COMPANY, so that you will be the REALTOR of CHOICE, when the *CLIENTS* home goes up for SALE AFTER THE FORECLOSURE, THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO HELP STOP???????

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!

Can you say double dipping into a pot?
Only problem is......
You NOW have two SOURCES of INCOME...BOTH in which are directly RELATED to the REALTY-MORTGAGE Industry. AND A REALTOR IS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE SUCH CONFLICTS OF INTEREST IF THEY SO CHOSE TO STILL KEEP THEIR REALTOR LICENSE!

SO CAN YOU OFFER SOME GUIDANCE INTO THESE THOUGHTS & OPINIONS?
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Joe B
Rick-

     If you feel like it, I think some of us might be curious what advice and "help" you were offered by this clearly unhappy lady. Would you be willing to share what assistance she offered, or made available to you? Also, what information did she gather FROM you while you talked/e-mailed, etc.? You don't need to provide specific info that you would consider personal; just generalities...

     If you don't wish to, that's fine, but it could shed some light on the back and forth here just a bit!!

JB

For the rest of us out there, I again call your attention to one of WAR's posts regarding sharing on the internet; copied in its entirety below:



While the MS Fraud Forum is a marvelous place to exchange information, EVERYONE who participates needs to TAKE CARE as to the precise details which they post.  There is some value to posting sufficient details to assist those who would like to HELP YOU.  But posting TOO MUCH DETAIL makes it possible to ascertain your IDENTITY.

Your STATE is possibly IMPORTANT in understanding your circumstances.  Your city, town or county is probably NOT necessary.  Understanding the ORDER OF MAGNITUDE of your original mortgage amount or mortgage balance may be helpful.  But hearing from you PRECISE AMOUNTS is NOT NECESSARY.  Identity or the mortgage originator and/or mortgage servicer is usually important, but if your mortgage originator is a very SMALL mortgage banking concern, even the identity of the originator might tend to identify you. 

The DATES of specific transactions are also usually UNIMPORTANT.  It is usually enough to say, the alleged mortgage indebtedness is asserted by the plaintiff to have been incurred in 2002.  We usually do NOT need to know the Month or the Date.

If specifics are necessary, communicate these through PRIVATE CHANNELS.

This Message Board is about MS Fraud.  If your problem is simply FINANCIAL DISTRESS, particularly if it is about a foreclosure induced by your financial distress, you need to be VERY GUARDED about the information you post here!

Financial distress is virtually NEVER a viable defense in either a judicial or non-judicial foreclosure action!  When it is PROVEN that the foreclosure has resulted from NON-PAYMENT and that non-payment arose from FINANCIAL DISTRESS, you have MADE THE PLAINTIFF's CASE FOR THEM!

Posting details about the nature and character of your financial distress is probably a very BAD IDEA.  While most foreclosure mills are TOO LAZY and TOO BUSY to mine this Message Board for data, I would be LOATH to push too out much detailed information that COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU into such a public forum.

This is NOT to say that there isn't valuable information within this Forum about mortgage foreclosure litigation, loan workouts or modification, sources of information, strategies, advice.  BUT PLEASE BE CAUTIOUS!

When posting information that might COMPROMISE YOUR CASE, use a pseudonym or handle.  AVOID making PRECISE statements.

We do NOT need to know that your mother-in-law had a particular surgical procedure.  We do NOT need to know that you lost your job as a taxidermist.  We do NOT need to know that your husband ran off with your spiritual advisor!

It is ENOUGH to know that you had some financial distress due to medical expenses or that your distress was due to unemployment or domestic breakup.  But even the NATURE of your distress is often unimportant.  It is enough to know that you had a hopefully NON-RECURRING financial setback or that you have financial distress that has seriously impaired your cash flow and now is precluding you from making your monthly payments. 

AVOID MAKING definitive statements that might constitute ADMISSIONS.  Don't tell me that you EXECUTED a promissory note, mortgage or deed of trust.  Tell me instead that the plaintiff ALLEGES that you executed the alleged promissory note or that the alleged mortgage contained a prepayment penalty.

Your communications on this message board are PUBLIC.  But even your communications via e-mail are NOT privileged (except to and from your attorney) and are subject to discovery.  So STOP BARING YOUR HEART and the DETAILS of your circumstances either on this message board OR in e-mail messages.  Save those conversations for your spouse, your priest, your lawyer, and/or your psychologist.  If you MUST tell some one else, invite your best friend over and have a good cry!  Then EXCISE all of the specifics and focus on that information which is actually IMPORTANT to the question you have or the point you are trying to make.

There are a LOT of great participants who will respond to posts in this Forum.  Sketch out your basic problems.  Get some feedback.  Then take SPECIFICS OFFLINE.

In understanding WHAT should be kept PRIVATE and what it may be OK to reveal, also bear in mind that recorded instruments (deeds, mortgages, deeds of trust, assignments) and court pleadings are mostly PUBLIC RECORDS and are generally readily accessible.  Similarly discovery questions already SERVED and discovery responses are already known to the other side.  It is the NON-PUBLIC facts and facts NOT readily know to the other side that you need to be guarded about!

You can safely SEND copies of most of these public documents or even the discovery materials to others if there is a compelling reason to do so.  But even in sending them, take care as to how you characterize them (attached is a copy of the alleged promissory note).  Sending ADMISSIONS or DETAILS about your financial circumstances, the FACT of any delinquencies or defaults or the nature, character and extent of your financial distress is what is perilous.  Also, you need to be careful about sharing litigation strategy.

I do NOT mean to sound unsympathetic, but I do NOT come to this message board in lieu of reading novels.  When I want to hear the sordid details about your husband's affair with your spiritual advisor, I will watch daytime television.  I LIKE helping people and if my eyes glaze over before I can determine your situation, you won't be getting any help from me!

I want to close by pointing out that I was recently able to discern a person's identity given only that individual's first name, county and fact and timing of foreclosure.  That person was quite SURPRISED!  It took me less than five minutes and didn't cost a nickle.  The convenience of the Internet comes at some cost as to PRIVACY.  Please bear this in mind!
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Wow,
I didn't mean to start a war between any of the folks on this very informative Forum.  I just was seeking any last minute assistance to save my Grandparents, Parents and my Family's home from foreclosure coming very shortly.

The advise I received after the toll free number was posted to me (which by the way I could have used a direct line that would have cost the answering party NOTHING) but.....the advise I was given was to contact the Servicer and ask for a chain of sale? or something like that, to find the actual owner of the mortgage,  perhaps putting off the foreclosure a bit longer, I was asked for my address and YES I GAVE IT, however when I was asked who the contact was in mitigation at the Bank I was paying,  I was a little awoken to why someone would ask before I had begun to seek under contract any help from any mitigation person (by the way I have legal council) I just like to gain as much info as I can on my own as often legal council is busy making money to pay their own mortgages...I actually believe that because I have legal council and have been advised over the last 12 months about my situation that I was more than on ground level with the person in question.  I hope this puts an end to the war I wish I had nothing to do with, but folks by this time next week, I will have lost my home of 48 years, and yes I do believe it was due to predatatory as well as Mortgage Servicing Fraud and also because of illness and loss of jobs in  the household.  I clearly am not a realtor nor am I an idiot.  In the future I will keep my personal information to myself and would highly suggest all others reading and visiting this informative forum to do the same.....PEACE

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it is fraud
this does pertain to MSF.
She has a business acting, as if helping home owners in crisis.
Does she truly help people we don't know.

Is this a conflict of interest?
Yes it is.

Is it possible she is caught up in some of this fraud? Yes it is.
Is it possible she is acting as a dual person in this fraud to profit from both sides of the totem pole? YES IT IS!

This IS MF, if she has any TWO SIDED dealings.
As discussed earlier.

Supposedly helping a client save their home, while working with the Mortg. Co. to sink a deal so she can be the Real Estate Agent for the clients Foreclosed home?

No, it's not directly related to the "SERVICING" fraud, but it is RELATED TO MORTGAGE FRAUD.

I really do wonder why she was SO VERY MAD, about the name of her Company being posted on this site. After all it is on the inter-net.

I wonder if she is furious about the name of her Company being posted on this site because she has a hand in the FORECLOSURES.

It makes perfect sense to me. (if she is guilty)
She is afraid of the repercussions, that will follow her LEGALLY since she is dealing with the two sides (if she is).

After All DIDN'T SHE SAY-------> "that would cause someone in foreclosure to come to my home to physically harm me.  You might as well have posted a map."

THOSE WORDS IN-ITSELF, SAY SHE IS GUILTY OF DOUBLE DIPPING, IF YOU ASK ME! I ask you, if she weren't guilty of DOUBLE DIPPING Why would she be concerned?

Seems like it was an admittance of guilt.

OF COURSE THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS.
But sharing them with the board.


 
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Not your fault, Rick. No worries...

However, if you DO have an attorney in place, you might want to talk to him/her about filing an Ex Parte Motion for Temporary Enjoinment (a TRO) on your behalf and see if you can get some more time to build your case. It may be called something different in your part of the country but the concept should be understood. Only reason I suggest it is that I've been at this for awhile and it worked for me in my situation. Not being a.) an attorney or b.) familiar with your specific situation it may not work for you. But it's worth the phone call to ask your counsel.

Meantime, keep building that paper trail....
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Mike,
Thanks, will do.
Rick

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By the way, Rick, I was just curious if I knew the person you were working with... you never know.  Best of luck to you, in any event.

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Congratulations on being a site owner/moderator. 

With great power comes great responsibility.
 
Today's lesson on defamation, malice, libel, et al. is brought to you by wikipedia ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

Burden of proof on the defendant:
...the common law of libel contains a kind of reverse-onus feature: a defamatory statement is presumed to be false unless the defendant can prove its truth. 
 
Traditionally, these per se defamatory statements include:
  • Allegations or imputations "injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession"

Malice is a legal term referring to a party's intention to do injury to another party. Malice is either expressed or implied. Express malice occurs when a party gives notice of the intention to commit a crime. Implied malice occurs when, in the course of nefarious or unlawful doings, a party causes the death of another party or does harm to another. Malice, in a legal sense, may be inferred from the evidence and imputed to the defendant, depending on the nature of the case....


.... It is quite unnecessary that the accused should have foreseen that his unlawful act might cause physical harm of the gravity described in the section, i.e. a wound or serious physical injury. It is enough that he should have foreseen that some physical harm to some person, albeit of a minor character, might result.

Modern law

English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.

A statement can include an implication.

United States Law
Development

"... immunity applies even if the providers are notified of defamatory material and neglect to remove it, due to the fact that provider liability upon notice would likely cause a flood of complaints to providers, would be a large burden on providers, and would have a chilling effect on freedom of speech on the Internet.

In November of 2006 the California Supreme Court ruled that 47 U.S.C. § 230(c)(1) does not permit web sites to be sued for libel that was written by other parties.[14]"

Since you, the web moderator/originator/owner made the statements, and you not only refuse to take them down, but have added to them -- we've got a case!  Looks like you're comin to California -- unless you'd like to send a settlement check.  $7,500 is the minimum claim in Superior Court here in Contra Costa County.  (Don't forget to ask the Judge if we're acquainted)  If it was *just* libel, we could get away with small claims, but you insist and persist on directing a lynch mob to my home based on false accusations. 
 
Let's just get started on the Complaint, shall we?
 
"Given the Defendant's extensive experience in web development, combined with an above-average interest in the real estate community and research posted by Defendant, Defendant knew, or should have known, exactly how to obtain accurate information with regard to Plaintiff's employment status and history, which is clearly posted through a credible source on the internet.   Instead, Defendant willfully and maliciously attacked Plaintiff, without provocation, and simply fabricated a place of employment deemed by himself and his forum community to be distainful, namely, Assist to Sell, and in the same post pointed out where Plaintiff lives and other pertinent personal and damaging information in a willful and malicious attempt to cause Plaintiff physical and emotional harm and damage to her property and willfully, maliciously and intentionally inflicting emotional distress."

1.  I don't even *know* anyone with Assist to Sell.  I have never worked for Assist to Sell.  I have never even discussed working for Assist to Sell with anyone, EVER.  You literally made this statement up to make your users angry at *me* personally with the intention of causing me harm.  It's a felony. 
 
And what's your defense???  "But, Your Honor, she passed the California Realtors' Exam.  She listed her house for sale... with ... um ... someone else entirely"
 
But let's get back to the Complaint:

"Additionally, Defendant accused Plaintiff, in the context of his own *foreclosure forum* of working for a certain Cobblestone Mortgage based on erroneous information without verifying said information through credible sources readily available on the internet with the information stated in Defendant's own initial defamatory statement.  Said accusation, in the context of his own *foreclosure forum* is designed specifically to incite rage, intentionally inflict emotional distress, compromise Plaintiff's safety, harm Plaintiff's person and/or property."

2.  Never worked for Cobblestone.  I can prove it in court if you'd like me to press charges.  We can subpeona their payroll.  Review my tax documents.  I never, ever worked there.  Didn't even know they had website, let alone anything about me.  (Nobody *cares* what you're "expected to think".  You took on the responsibility of this site and you're commiting a felonious, malicious act while simultaneously claiming to be knowledgable enough to verify your facts.)  Cobblestone, btw, was absorbed by CMG about a year ago, and today, Cobblestone DOESN'T EVEN EXIST.   It's simply a division of CMG.  I've never even been to the building.  I don't refer them business.  They don't refer me business.  Never have; never will.

3.  Never took a listing in my life.  EVER.  Not in California, where I'm licensed, nor in any other state.  EVER.  I can prove that, one, too.  The handful of *buyers* I represented *years ago* were friends and family.  No, I didn't make a lot of money off them; yes, they got great deals; no, they're not in foreclosure. 


It's simply *not* my source of income.  Neither is loss mit, for that matter.

4.  NEVER accepted or charged any fees for loss mitigation in any context.  EVER.  Happy to prove that one, too, in the course of collecting damages.


In fact, I offer my time and my 800 line, free of charge FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN to help people like Rick.  People like Paige can get into loss mit, help mortgage brokers get into loss mit, and this whole fiasco can be over sooner rather than later on every level -- which you clearly are too blinded by your misplaced anger to even attempt to understand, (*or* you have something terrifying in mind).  If indeed you can't understand it, yet you attack me without provocation with such *viciousness* speaks to something very different.  You're a little overzealous, to say the least.

I honestly hope Rick can buy some time and save his house.  And that's really what this thread and this site should be about, rather than attacking -- again, ILLEGALLY -- *anyone* let alone someone who's trying to help.  What on Earth could you possibly hope to accomplish?  Or is that where the terror comes in?

You're way out of line here.  Way, way, way out of line.  Your assumptions are dead wrong; your accusations are false; you know how to verify correctly; *you* *know* *better*.  It's willful.  It's malicious.  It's a felony.  I understand you've been advised by ML-implode to take them down as well. 

Your intentions and demeanor are no different than a gang leader.  You're committing a criminal act with clear intent to harm.  It's one thing to post accusations (again, false ones, aka libel) it's quite another to point the way for the lynching mob (malice).  Where do you live, btw?  Is your "story" even true or just justifiable means to some terrifying end?


Making false unverified accusations combined with flawed conjecture for the specific purpose of causing harm on your own site -- you're absolutely liable, and your little site here could very well be history. 
 
*All* I asked is that you take down the post or portion of the post which intends to cause me personal harm, namely, my personal contact information and location.

More from Wikipedia:

Similar but different delicts and torts:
Some jurisdictions have a separate tort or delict of "verbal injury," "intentional infliction of emotional distress," or "convicium," involving the making of a statement, even if truthful, intended to harm the claimant out of malice; some have a separate tort or delict of "invasion of privacy" in which the making of a true statement may give rise to liability: but neither of these comes under the general heading of "defamation". Some jurisdictions also have the tort of "false light", in which a statement may be technically true, but so misleading as to be defamatory. There is also, in almost all jurisdictions, a tort or delict of "misrepresentation", involving the making of a statement which is untrue even though not defamatory; thus if a surveyor states that a house is free from the risk of flooding, he or she has not defamed anyone, but may still be liable to someone who purchases the house in reliance on this statement. Other increasingly common claims similar to defamation in U.S. law are claims that a famous trademark has been diluted through tarnishment, see generally trademark dilution, "intentional interference with contract," and "negligent misrepresenation."



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Susan:

I am getting VERY BORED with these "Flame" postings.  I am NOT a moderator or webmaster nor do I have ANY responsibility for REMOVING any posts from these message boards.  Nor is it readily apparent to me why anyone WOULD find it necessary to REMOVE any of the posted information.

Perhaps you fail to appreciate that there are a NUMBER of entities around the country which are now fraudulently OFFERING to help those facing foreclosures FOR A FEE.  These folks PREY UPON those already in EXTREME FINANCIAL DISTRESS.

No doubt, Mike DILLON and others were VERY CONCERNED when they learned that a participant at this Forum had been in touch with someone whose DESCRIPTION seemed to at least casually match that of the perpetrators of these frauds.

Upon doing very SIMPLE web-based due diligence, Mike apparently FACTUALLY REPORTED what he learned.  This INCREASED rather than ALLAYED his suspicions.  There certainly COULD HAVE BEEN NO MALICE INVOLVED.  Mike's actions are motivated by CHARITY.

YOUR POSTS INCREASE MY SUSPICIONS ABOUT YOU!

Perhaps you didn't see Mike featured recently on ABC News.  Mike has a longstanding demonstrable RECORD of helping distressed homeowners facing foreclosure.  FOR FREE.

When you appear as a STRANGER on a Message Board and begin posting various threats and FLAMES, you come across as paranoid and unstable.  I hope that this is a misimpression!

Elsewhere within this Forum, I DISCOURAGED people from posting many details about themselves or their situations.  The instant and global reach of the Internet introduces MANY privacy challenges.

Since you continue to FLAME, I am going to ADD to the TRUTHFUL PUBLIC INFORMATION which seems to RELATED TO YOU:

See the California State Department of Real Estate generally at http://www.dre.cahwnet.gov/index.html or more specifically at http://www2.dre.ca.gov/PublicASP/pplinfo.asp?License_id=01333186 .

Information relating to the filing of a COMPLAINT about a licensed California real estate salesperson is HERE:

http://www.dre.cahwnet.gov/cons_complaint.html


If you want to continue your FLAME TOMORROW, I will go ahead and ADD additional TRUTHFUL INFORMATION relating to your date of birth, Mother's maiden name and all PRIOR residences.  I will just ADD additional TRUTHFUL information about you (including your hat size) DAILY until everyone feels that they KNOW YOU!  Since you are HONEST and UPRIGHT, I am sure that you will AGREE that making this information more readily available is a PUBLIC SERVICE which will IMPROVE people's KNOWLEDGE about who is giving them advice and their CONFIDENCE in dealing with you!
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Susan: 

Oh, BY THE WAY, you might want to take a look at my timely post of Thursday, January 3, 2008, 09:52 PM and in particular you might want to read 72 C.J.S. Process 110  "Elements of Malicious Use of Process" before you throw out ANY further threats.  It is rather clear that you are NEITHER a lawyer NOR even REMOTELY acquainted with the law!  I would recommend going around and picking fights with experienced ltigators!  Especially experienced litigators with friends in high places OR friends in the new media.
 
Is it really IMPORTANT TO YOU to fight with us??  WHY???
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I agree with you completely, Mr. Roper.  I don't even have the bandwidth to read it all, given the false nature of the statements against me.

I don't work for Cobblestone

I don't work for Assist to Sell

I'm not a listing agent and I don't charge foreclosure victims for loss mitigation services.

I've been falsely accused of the contrary combined with my personal contact information for the purposes of terrorizing me.

My first post on this site was a simple offer of free help.  The first response back was, in the context of a foreclosure forum, a conjectured attack on me personally -- false accusations combined with my location.

I've been on television, too.  That doesn't give anyone the right to bully someone.

I simply ask that my personal information as combined with false accusations, be taken down.

Why the attack on me, Mr. Roper???  Clearly, you're bright enough to find my license number, however still unable to verify employment as stated in Mr. Dillon's post, which was obviously designed to inflame.

Why?

Please forward the contact information for your site administrator.


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Susan:

I POST under my own FULL NAME because I have nothing to FEAR on the basis of my posts.

It appears to me that after a post to include this URL -- http://www.GotMortgageLates.com  -- that Mike DILLON became SUSPICIOUS.  I DO NOT BLAME HIM.

Having visited this site, you SOLICIT information from others IN DISTRESS without providing ANY MEANINGFUL INFORMATION about YOURSELF at the web site.  I find that VERY SUSPICIOUS.

Separate from Mike's post relating to the ownership of the domain information, I would note that it does NOT APPEAR that GotMortgageLates.com is registered as an assumed name in Contra Costa County as of the date of this post. 

Whether the fact that you are soliciting information from others without furnishing information about yourself actually reflects any pattern of dishonesty or deceit or whether your failure to provide more meaningful contact information about yourself reflects a harmless and casual OMMISION remains to be seen.

IF I WAS SEEKING TO BE TRUSTED BY OTHERS, I WOULD HAVE AT LEAST MY FULL NAME AND MEANINGFUL CONTACT INFORMATION, TO INCLUDE AT LEAST A POST OFFICE BOX FOR MAIL (IF I DESIRED SOME ADDITIONAL INSULATION).  IF I WERE A LICENSED REAL ESTATE SALESPERSON, I WOULD PROBABLY NOTE THIS FACT ON THE CONTACT PAGE.  I WOULD PROVIDE ENOUGH SPECIFIC INFORMATION TO ENHANCE CONFIDENCE.  AS IT NOW EXISTS, YOUR WEB SITE IS NOT CONFIDENCE INSPIRING, BUT RATHER TO ME GIVES THE APPEARANCE OF A FLEETING BOILERROOM COME ON, HOPING TO HARVEST INFORMATION FROM THE DISTRESSED AND DESPARATE.  IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE, PERHAPS YOU OUGHT TO ADD THE MEANINGFUL CONTACT INFORMATION TO YOUR WEB SITE AND, IF HIDING BEHIND ASSUMED NAMES, PROPERLY REGISTER SUCH ASSUMED NAMES WITH THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.  IF YOU ARE REGISTERED ELSEWHERE, PLEASE NOTE THAT YOUR OMISSION OF ANY MEANINGFUL GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION FROM YOUR WEB SITE SEEMS DESIGNED TO INSULATE YOU AND YOUR SITE FROM REGULATORY EXPOSURE BY ANY PARTICUAR STATE OR BY ANY PARTICULAR COUNTY.  SINCE YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED ANOTHER ASSUMED NAME IN THE PAST, IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE WELL AWARE OF THE NECESSITY OF DOING SO.

And, NO, I do NOT have any special relationship or contact with the site administrators.  But if it were MY SITE, I would LEAVE ALL THE POSTS UP AS THEY ARE.  Mike DILLON reported ONLY what he found elsewhere online about you.  You have posted what you purport to be correcting information.  No one has been libeled.  The public is INFORMED.  People are perfectly capable of drawing appropriate and meaningful conclusions based upon what is posted.  You certainly have it within YOUR POWER to ADD meaningful and specific information about yourself and your services to YOUR OWN web site at http://www.GotMortgageLates.com .  If you are performing a valuable service for FREE, I am sure that you will quickly develop a following.  But I wouldn't give you so much as my NAME in a web based form if you are UNWILLING to post your NAME and LOCATION at your web site. 

If people are suspicious of you, this is a problem OF YOUR OWN MAKING.  Look in the mirror.  Take a deep breath.  Be a little introspective.  If you cannot see your way clear to ADDING meaningful information to your website, then you DESERVE the WORST of people's suspicions!

Bye, now!
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Mr. Dillon posted, at 5:08 a.m. my time, just 7 minutes after a call from this supossed "victim".  By his own admission, the statements are not corroborated.  As it turns out, they're absolutely false.

Perhaps this whole exercise is simply a bait.  While Mike may not charge directly, there cetainly appears to be something in it for him, and for you.

A reasonable response to my origional post might have gone something like this:

Hey, Looks like you're trying to help -- you new here?  what's your background?  welcome aboard ...  that is, if you were truly pro bono.

Instead of using BOLD RED LETTERS to incite anger and hatetread and then proceed to post information that could lead to me, personally.

My site is only four months old.  While I welcome the opportunity to help people stay in their homes; I'm not so sure about the competition ... using fear and manipulation to protect *something*

Again, Mr. Roper, why the attack?




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susan wrote:
I don't even have the bandwidth to read it all, given the false nature of the statements against me.

I don't work for Cobblestone

I don't work for Assist to Sell

As my post has been edited to remove pertinent information I'll explain. Ms. Kahler is currently listed on the Home Team Realty CA website with the "Assist to Sell" logo as a "Showing Agent" under the link leading from "Last Names Beginning with G through L" with an association with "Cobblestone Mortgage Company". If that information is incorrect, Ms. Kahler, then your beef is with Home Team Realty and/or Cobblestone Mortgage Company for not correcting or removing the information from their site and not with me.

I'm not a listing agent and I don't charge foreclosure victims for loss mitigation services.

http://implode-explode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21031

Samepaige
Flash in the pan


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 33
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:36 amReply with quoteBack to top

Yes, exactly, it's loss mitigation ... a growth industry, sadly.

No, we don't pull credit. We're not the lender.

We verify with the borrower -- thanks for catching that, I'll have to make the job description a little more clear. The Borrower fills out a budget worksheet and we carefully verify, verbally, with the borrower what their bills are, stressing the importance of being complete and accurate.

_________________
Paige Taylor
Be a part of the solution

http://www.GotMortgageLates.com
http://www.TeaserFreeze.com

***********************

 

Samepaige
Flash in the pan


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 33
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:50 amReply with quoteBack to top

Thanks, Do the math,

In California, we're governed by the Civil Code and Business and Professions, but we do have a broker. We work in every state.

We're doing exactly what you're suggesting, charging the borrower a fee and getting them into a reasonable loan. We've worked hard to get to the point where we can offer this to the mortgage community as a marketable service.

We work with every lender and you're welcome to work with us.

_________________
Paige Taylor
Be a part of the solution

http://www.GotMortgageLates.com
http://www.TeaserFreeze.com

Last edited by Samepaige on Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total

I'm also wondering if "Paige Taylor" exists as she shares commonalities with your own name, Ms. Kahler. Do you allow all of your employees or contractors to use your e-mail address at GotMortgageLates.com in the course of promoting your business, Ms. Kahler?


I've been falsely accused of the contrary combined with my personal contact information for the purposes of terrorizing me.

 

No accusations have been made anywhere. Any "personal contact information" was already posted on the internet BY YOURSELF in the real estate listing for the property you are attempting to sell. Apparently, you're not "terrorized" by the thought of possibly selling a property for $800,000. Likewise, there is no reason to feel "terrorized" by me. It IS interesting that this concept keeps coming up in conversation though.

My first post on this site was a simple offer of free help.  The first response back was, in the context of a foreclosure forum, a conjectured attack on me personally -- false accusations combined with my location.

 

There was no "attack" period. Information already readily available on the internet was simply posted here. Information that, in addition to other entities, you had apparently either made available on the internet yourself or had knowledge and approval of.

Why the attack on me, Mr. Roper???  Clearly, you're bright enough to find my license number, however still unable to verify employment as stated in Mr. Dillon's post, which was obviously designed to inflame.

 

No, Ms. Kahler, the purpose of the initial response to your post was to inform Mortgage Servicing Fraud victims to be aware of with whom they were potentially doing business in the process of attempting to save their homes. Homeowners faced with losing their homes oftentimes, in desperation, leap before they look and blindly trust anyone offering to help them save their homes. The second post was made specifically with regard to GotMortgageLates.com.

 

Had you not openly stated that the property in question was other than a real estate listing that you were handling no one, including myself, would have realized otherwise, unless they wanted to look closer at the situation. Regardless, the listing appeared openly on the internet. It was neither something for which I scoured the earth nor was it proprietary information. Given the nature of the contact information involved, I can only assume that you made the listing available on the internet yourself or, at the very least had full knowledge and approval of it's existence.

 
Likewise, as previously suggested, you might want to contact your domain provider and make alternate arrangements for administrative contact with you if you did not understand that information that you provided them was publicly available on the internet. Again, that is simply nothing over which I have any control.

At this point, Ms. Kahler, I respectfully request that you refrain from further baseless accusations and public use of extortion or blackmail if that, in fact, was directed at me.

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susan wrote:
Mr. Dillon posted, at 5:08 a.m. my time, just 7 minutes after a call from this supposed "victim".  By his own admission, the statements are not corroborated.  As it turns out, they're absolutely false.

No, Ms. Kahler, my initial post was made at 10:24 EST. The second post which directly addresses your business was made at 11:08 am EST. 10:24 EST translates into 7:24am PST if I'm not mistaken and 11:08am to 8:08am PST. And if information found on the internet is false, it is not my responsibility to correct it. Much like any other responsible, concerned homeowner should have done, I simply searched for some information on who I would potentially be doing business with and the result is what I have found and shown thus far.
 
If the information I have found is, in fact, incorrect, then my apologies for finding it. However, you have already established that you have had some form of relationship with Cobblestone Mortgage, whether business or personal, you are listed as being a licensed CA real estate agent, you have confirmed that you are a "loss mitigator" and, by description, you are also apparently acting in the capacity of a mortgage broker. These are all things that I, were I a homeowner in distress and looking for a solution, would want to know.

Perhaps this whole exercise is simply a bait.  While Mike may not charge directly, there certainly appears to be something in it for him, and for you.
What good or service am I charging for, Ms. Kahler?

A reasonable response to my origional post might have gone something like this:

Hey, Looks like you're trying to help -- you new here?  what's your background?  welcome aboard ...  that is, if you were truly pro bono.

We obviously differ on what is considered "reasonable", Ms. Kahler. I'm beginning to suspect that that happens rather frequently with you, though.

Instead of using BOLD RED LETTERS to incite anger and hatetread and then proceed to post information that could lead to me, personally.
The font, size and color used were simply chosen to call attention to information, I assure you. If your interpretation differs or if you are as significantly influenced by internet forum typeset as you suggest then several suggestions come to mind from which I will refrain for the moment. And the information in question was posted either by yourself or with your knowledge and approval as the information in question was a listing sheet posted on the internet.

My site is only four months old.  While I welcome the opportunity to help people stay in their homes; I'm not so sure about the competition ... using fear and manipulation to protect *something*
What "competition" are you perceiving here, Ms. Kahler?


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 Hey everyone!

My house is being foreclosed on this Monday 1/7/08, i've contacted A.C.O.R.N. here in ma. and they have made a call to the people they work with at WAMU!, could I be wrong or do I have a chance?

The auction starts at 12:00 Monday..., I may plop down a few bucks again and file a chapter 13 to stop the auction....

I would suggest anyone in a loan like mine to do the same and let the courts and everyone else you know that you were going thru tuff times and ended up with either a predatory loan and or a Mortgage Services's Servicer or whatever type of loan....

All I know is I have till Mond 1/7/08 at noon eastern time to stop the mortgage....I will do all that I can, and keep my friends and mutual associates (going thru the same thing) informed as to what happens.

Thank you all again



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~beenawhile
Best of luck to you Rick.

I understand you don't want to file a Chapter 13 again. (if you are able)

What I was saying earlier may not have been explained well enough.
Here is another attempt to help you.

You are wanting (possibly) to file Chapter 13 to save your home right?

1. Get your phone book
2. Look under Bankruptcy Attorneys
3. Call the first office you see
4. Ask the Attorney if they will do a chapter 13 Bankruptcy for you, and add their Attorneys fees, and the Chapter 13 filing fees to the BANKRUPTCY RE-PAYMENT PLAN.

Rick, if you find a Bankruptcy Attorney who would do this for you........ YOU would HAVE TO PAY NOTHING OUT OF YOUR POCKET ON MONDAY!

MOST Bankruptcy Attorneys are willing to do this for their clients.

WHY? Because the Bnkrptcy Attorney understands, that you are having CURRENT FINANCIAL Difficulties. They know that their clients CANNOT AFFORD to pay them on that day.

So what the Attorney does, is takes his fees that he would be charging you, sets those fees aside........ Files the BANKRUPTCY COURT FILING FOR YOU, sets those fees aside......
and He waits until you have your first court date, which is a simple gathering of ALL of your creditors (the people you owe money to) and the creditors all submit their "claims" to the court, & to the Attorney.

The Attorney then goes through all the Companies you "supposedly" owe money too, makes a list of all of those names.

Then asks you to review the list, You say Yes this company is legit. Yes we OWE that amount.
Yes, to the next.
No to the company you have never heard of.
No to the amount they "claim" you owe.

The Attorney then sends that company notification.

The Attorney removes that Company's name from the list, And makes a new one for you to look at.

Once there is a true and accurate list, of companies you owe money too, and their "claim amounts" are correct the Attorney then submits all of this information to the Bankruptcy court.

A DATE FOR YOU TO APPEAR AT COURT IS THEN SET.
YOU then show up for the appointment, and verify with the Chapter 13 Trustee that these debts and claims are valid.
They then APPROVE the CHAPTER 13 for you.

All of the money that you owe to all of these companies will then be paid through the chapter 13 bankruptcy courts, by the Chapter 13 Trustee.

So where does the Chapter 13 Trustee get the money to pay these debts? They get it from you.

The Trustee, has reviewed YOUR MONTHLY INCOME, (on the day you go to court to verify the debts)
And the trustee DECIDES how much money you will pay the Courts on a monthly basis, and for how many years you will pay that amount.

This is called a RE-PAYMENT PLAN.

Now in getting back to the Attorney's Fees, and the Court Costs, Those Attorneys Fees, & Court Costs CAN BE ADDED TO THE CHAPTER 13 BANKRUPTCY RE-PAYMENT PLAN!

POINT BLANK...... YOU WILL OWE NO COURT COSTS OR ATTORNEYS FEES RIGHT NOW (AS IT WILL BE A MONTH OR TWO BEFORE THE COURT APPROVES & FINALIZES YOUR CHAPTER 13 RE-PAYMENT PLAN.

THOSE FEES WILL BE PAID TO THE COURT, AND TO THE ATTORNEY THROUGH THE "LOW" MONTHLY REPAYMENT PLAN.

WHAT I'M SAYING RICK, IS YOU CAN GET A BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY FREE OF CHARGE RIGHT NOW.

HE WILL CHARGE YOU LATER IN SMALL MONTHLY INCREMENTS.

DOING THIS CAN SAVE YOUR HOME, AND SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE FEES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN CHARGED.
IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT YOU CAN PERMANENTLY SAVE YOUR HOME, (once you get to court & the Trustee & Judge see your Mortgage Documents with ALL OF THE FRAUD.)

Please read this post, and re-read it until it makes sense to you.
Ask some questions, and I/we all will answer them as best I can.

Many others here haven't been in chapter 13 bankruptcy, but are still very knowledgeable of the Chpt. 13.

I have been in a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy.
The above explanations ARE HOW the CHAPTER 13 works.

SAVE YOUR HOME, and expose the FRAUD to the bankruptcy TRUSTEE & Judge!

(as always, not legal advice..... only offering these suggestions as a means for YOU to possibly save your home.I hope it works for you if you decide to go this route. The choice is yours, and yours alone. It is suggested you seek free legal representation for further information.)
As Always GOOD LUCK



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Cop watch !
WOW ,     Mike  &  WAR   ,


     way to go !      she got busted on burboun st , set up like a bowling pin , knock down       no way , shape or form would I want to be SUSAN right about now .


this goes out to our COP watch Detectives   :  Mike  &  WAR
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