Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
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Hello,

 

We actually got here by seeing a post from Mike D. on a foreclosure forum that proceeded to attempt to belittle the issue and turn it from mortgage servicing fraud into a personal attack.  Just wanted to say we support any victim of fraud when a foreclosure situation rears its ugly head.

 

Very new to the forum (first post), but we've been helping people out of foreclosure for years now.  We've seen an increase lately in suspected mortgage servicing fraud, and have been visiting this site pretty frequently.

 

It's too bad that nearly everyone in the mortgage industry can defraud one family at a time about their mortgage.  Inflated appraisals, predatory ARMs, loose lending, and then mortgage servicing fraud: a homeowner can be a victim at every single step of the mortgage process.

 

Anyway, to the question.

 

Are there any suggested high-priority materials on this site (or others) that focus on defending homeowners from MSF?

 

Anecdotes give a lot of good ideas, but may be too situation-specific for general use.  Actual laws with legal wording are over the head of many homeowners.

 

Thanks for any help.  Glad to be part of the forum now.

 

ForeclosureFish

http://www.foreclosurefish.com

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O -
 
How long will it take to save my home from foreclosure?

Although many of our foreclosure services are performed at no charge, there are several items that we must pay for and therefore must pass the cost along to you. The following list includes all of our services, along with the estimated cost of each.

Item
Cost
Item
Cost
Individual Foreclosure Review N/C   Bank Negotiations $25.00 - $150.00
Bank Workout Pkg N/C   Real Estate Appraisal $250.00 - $500.00
Smart Mortgage Search N/C   Home Valuation $49.00
State Foreclosure Research N/C   Credit Report/Review/Xpert $49.00-$200
Sheriffs Sale Delay (if possible) N/C   Official Payoff Request(s) $10.00 each
Phone/Email/Web support N/C   Investor listing (private funding) $250.00 + 5% at closing
Case review N/C   Mortgage Fees 3% at closing
Official Recommendation N/C   Loan Preperation $79.00
Foreclosure Specialist Consultation N/C   Delivery/Mail Service $35.00

Call today for your free consultation. (312) 475-5705

 

 

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Doesn't Matter

ForeclosureFish

 

I've reviewed your site and it looks like many of the foreclosure assistance scams that the AG's across the nation are looking into. Private investors that take equity away from the homeowners or even transfer into their names on the promise to get them a new loan latter that doesn't happen. They then sell it out from under you. Cost and fees charged to negotiate with a lender on programs that the borrower can seek on their own without costs. Your advertisement should be pulled from this site.

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Re:  Foreclosurefish

These scammers will do anything to scr** homeowners out of their money.  Business must not be too good for someone to come on to this site and try to reach someone unimformed.  F**fish, the people on this site are very informed.  No one will touch you until you have been investigated and found to be a good guy.

As I do to all other scammers, please provide me with a few references and a few people you have "helped" with contact info and we'll get back with you.  Not one scammer has offered any of this info.

Go steal somewhere else.  If I am wrong, I will apologize and refer business to you.

Big Bob
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4 justice now

FFISH:

 

If you are indeed what you claim to be you really shouldn't have objection to complying with Big Bob's request.

 

If not, I suggest you go find a really good place to hide, and you best be quick about it. After all, I'm sure you are well aware that the cost of prime under rock hiding places are at an all time high. (Hmmm, supply and demand).

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Are there any suggested high-priority materials on this site (or others) that focus on defending homeowners from MSF?

 

*****************************

 

defending homeowners from Mortgage Servicing Fraud.

 

Yeah, don't get a mortgage.

 

Don't use a broker.

 

Get your own appraisal.

 

IxNay on the creative loans.

 

At this point, you cannot be protected from mortgage servicing fraud.

Apparently, it is not against the law to fleece borrowers.

 

you have no control over who gets contracted to service the repayment of your mortgage.

 

Mortgage loans are traded around like baseball cards and you get

no say in the matter.

 

So, people here are already fighting being fleeced.  They don't need

another parasite siphoning their money.

 

We'll be waiting to see your references and results.

 

How many foreclosures have you stopped?  Stopping it once doesn't end it, just for your information.

 

It is kind of rude of you to suggest that victims of mortgage servicing fraud pay you for services they can perform themselves.

 

We are going way beyond what you offer in helping to train each other

how to identify issues, resolve issues, collecting evidence, preparing evidence as exhibits.  Additionally, some preliminary auditing of the loan contract and accounting in the repayment process.  How to interview a lawyer that can intelligently handle your consumer

protection case.  Short supply.  Huge demand.

 

So we should point you to information on this site, that you will take with you for free and then charge a victim of mortgage servicing fraud?

 

Yeah, I don't think so.

 

Dee

 

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Foreclosure fish it would appear to ms fraud victims who are knowledgeable you have a financial interest in the continuation of ms fraud and other related scams.

 

Why? it seems you set up investors to purchase and offer lease back/buyback programs, no illegal/fraudulent foreclosures no investment returns. 

 

Perhaps you are honest and many can sincerely benefit from lease back or buy back options in various situations.

 

What we are doing here is stopping ms fraud and bringing the perpetrators to justice.

 

If you have a genuine plan to bring fraud perpetrators to to justice to create greater prosperity and stability for the market that would be great and we all would benefit. If your primary offering is buy back/ lease back options after the borrower has been scammed, that has nothing to do with bringing corporate crooks to justice and will only let them off the hook.

 

Professionally we need things like forensic accountants, ms fraud specialist lawyers, people who can lobby politicians and regulatory agencies to put a stop to ms fraud. Best of all would be to convince the lenders and servicers not to engage in this type of behavior at all, but rather make loans which are a net benefit to the borrower and service them fairly.

 

This fraud is destroying the market, especially inner city areas. Private lending where investors risk their capitol is a great idea as long as its honest and the borrower does not get scammed.

 

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Amen!

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Honestly, that wasn't the response I was expecting.  I'm fully aware the people here are very knowledgeable, and that's why I came here: for information from posters who are knowledgeable about a subject that I am (as yet) mostly unaware of in its intricacies. 

 

I do apologize if anyone was offended by the request for suggested reading materials to become familiar with MS fraud.  My intention was to request guidance and information on an issue that is under-reported from people who seem experts on the issue. 

 

I also did not intend to give the impression that I already was an expert on any subject; mortgage fraud, foreclosure, real estate, gardening, mortgages, history, or otherwise.

 

Again, though, I acquiesce to the superiority of the senior members of this board, and, until I am a certified expert, will request no information.

 

Thank you for the help, though, such that it was.  And thank you for the website in the first place.  Good luck with your quest to expose the issue of MS fraud, as I support the effort.

 

p.s., I did read and evaluate the predbear.pdf report by Nye Lavalle, which I thought to be well-written and presented an irrefutable case against EMC.  But that is only coming from a self-aware amateur on the subject.

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FF,

 

I can only speak for myself.  We are cautious as to what we post because not everyone here is a good guy.  We mostly are victims.  Some are predators.

 

All we ask before we go further is an explanation or reference.  The good guys here are out to help. 

 

I refer you to my earlier posts and the follow ups from others.

 

Bob

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Explanation, such that it is, as requested:

 

“We are cautious as to what we post because not everyone here is a good guy.  We mostly are victims.  Some are predators.  All we ask before we go further is an explanation or reference.  The good guys here are out to help.”

-Not everyone anywhere is a good guy, and I’m aware that only victims of MS fraud would create a site to expose MS fraud, and the majority of users would be victims of MS fraud who would be very knowledgeable about MS fraud through personal experience and the sharing of others’ experiences; thus, be considerable as a source of guidance on the subject.  People ignorant of MS fraud would not have created a site specializing in MS Fraud.

 

“I've reviewed your site and it looks like many of the foreclosure assistance scams that the AG's across the nation are looking into.”

-Thank you for taking the time to review the site and to point out that its look was aesthetically displeasing to you.  I can not refute whether or not a series of specific HTML codes look aesthetically pleasing to the end user or not, although I’ve taken the statement into consideration.  As we are discussing website aesthetics, please note that the MS fraud website home page does not show up correctly on Mozilla Firefox browsers with a version number of 1.5.0.8, effectively making 5-7% of the internet-using population unable to view the forum, legal lounge, and other sections of the site.  I had to view the site in IE7 to see there was a menu on the left side of the screen.  And that was the last time I used IE7. But other posts can address aesthetic questions, such as the poetry of Shakespeare’s language, art collection of the Museum of Modern Art, or guitar-playing ability of Dragonforce.

 

“These scammers will do anything to scr** homeowners out of their money.  Business must not be too good for someone to come on to this site and try to reach someone unimformed.”

-followed by-

“No one will touch you until you have been investigated and found to be a good guy.”

-With all due respect, you implied I was a “scammer” trying to “reach someone uninformed,” and will not be touched until I have been “found to be a good guy.”  I find that largely impossible to answer, as your determination of me came before your offer of investigation.  If your judgment is clouded by your assumption of me based on the actions of others whose actions and intentions I also deplore and find revolting, then I am defending myself needlessly against a verdict that has been decided in advance: all in all, an argument I can never win.

 

“[P]lease provide me with a few references and a few people you have "helped" with contact info and we'll get back with you.”

-Please send an email address and copies of closing statements, email testimonials, contracts, etc., can be provided to the administrator of the forum or webmaster of the site.  Please also include a copy of the privacy policy for the personal information of the clients whose information you would have access to.  Also, you must prove to me that the administrator/webmaster is not directly or indirectly perpetuating or tacitly condoning the perpetuation of MS fraud.

 

“If I am wrong, I will apologize and refer business to you.”

-Wait, that’s not the point at all!  I don’t want business referred to me by anyone here as some sort of payment for being given credence, or as an apology for being labeled a “scammer” who will “do anything to scr** homeowners out of their money.”  Refer business locally to someone you trust, if you want to refer at all.

 

“So we should point you to information on this site, that you will take with you for free and then charge a victim of mortgage servicing fraud?”

-Actually, I was planning on referring applicable people whose situations warrant sufficient cause to raise the issue of MS fraud, and then point homeowners who feel they may be victims of MS fraud directly and unequivocally to this website.  I wouldn’t take information from a source on any site that is free and charge someone for it.  However, this is a question of intent, and debating what you assume my intent to be is another argument I can not win, except to state on my side that it was not the intent and to have offered the explanation above.

 

“[I]t would appear to ms fraud victims who are knowledgeable you have a financial interest in the continuation of ms fraud and other related scams.”

-I understand the concern and apologize for the appearance.  Money only represents the ability to do work.  The ability to do work is energy.  If I could find a way to generate electricity for free, not depend on transportation, and obtain/grow food on my own, and dedicate my time to personal interests only, these issues would still be something I would try to learn more about.  If that was the case, I would need no energy, therefore, no work.  Unfortunately, due to the nature of our economy, nearly anyone who has a retirement, mutual fund or savings account has a financial interest in the continuation of MS fraud, not to mention drug dealing and other organized crimes.

 

“If you have a genuine plan to bring fraud perpetrators to to justice to create greater prosperity and stability for the market that would be great and we all would benefit.”

-No, I don’t have a plan.  In fact, I wouldn’t know where to begin coming up with a plan to dispose of the corruption and bring the perpetrators to justice.  Getting the word out, creating more information, or exposing the issue only goes so far.  The political system is broken, unfixable, and won’t come to the aid of a victim in most cases.  The public is unaware a problem exists, and even if they voted on laws to stop MS fraud, the public doesn’t count the votes or enforce the laws.  Ironically, the people writing the laws are the same ones enforcing the laws and counting the votes.  In addition, the judicial system, as seen in posts and stories on this site, is paid for verdicts in advance by utilizing judges with conflicts of interest who are sympathetic to the corporations conducting the fraud.

 

“This fraud is destroying the market, especially inner city areas.”

-I agree, as are drugs (CIA), gangs (organized crime), high energy prices (peak oil), money laundering (correspondent banking), the housing bubble (Federal Reserve), financial corruption (Wall Street (= CIA)), and a list of other issues.  Destroying the housing market increases the stock market.  And isn’t that amazing?  Between the two choices, what will people who aren’t victims choose: Give up the fraud, give up your retirement savings?  Hold onto and allow the fraud to increase, increase your 401(k)?

 

“Private lending where investors risk their capitol is a great idea as long as its honest and the borrower does not get scammed.”

-This is singularly the best statement made on the discussion so far, and specifying local investors is well worth the effort, as local investors have an interest in the local economy and society.  As housing markets become more and more localized (as transportation costs go up), having a local economy for everything is the best idea.

 

I agree that anything to do with stopping foreclosure can be seen as solving a symptom, instead of solving the underlying problem, such as large-scale health conditions may only result in localized symptoms.

 

And you’re all absolutely right: no national or multinational corporation: GE, Coca-Cola, Bear Stearns, Citigroup, Disney, BP, VeriChip, or otherwise is ever going to help a homeowner with their finances, mortgage, health, or life.  We’re in a land ruled by dragons and dependent on fire for our very lifestyle.

 

But people seem to want help only when a problem manifests itself, and, even then, can not trace the problem to the cause.  Health is only confronted at the point of cancer or heart attack, with bad “genes/virus/bacteria” being blamed, rather than a lifetime of the easiest, most convenient choice being fast food, snack food, and processed food offered by these corporations, instead of exercise and food growing.

 

Or alternatively,

 

But homeowners seem to want help only when a problem manifests itself, and, even then, can not trace the problem to the cause.  The mortgage is only confronted at the point of foreclosure or sheriff sale, with “missed payments/not accepting payments/taxes weren’t paid/insurance increased” being blamed, rather than a lifetime of the easiest, most convenient choice being conventional mortgages, FHA/HUD, mortgage servicing offered by these corporations, instead of local investors and simply paying cash for a home.

 

But when one finally finds their way out of the dark for a brief second, realizes a problem with the world, and seeks out experts for guidance, and is greeted with calls to the effect of “I don’t like your look,” “You look like a scammer,” or “Prove you deserve our help or leave now,” then all one can do is offer a feeble defense (see this post), apologize for the offense (see previous post), and wait for the response from the experts.  New monks requesting to join an order, no matter their involvement with the world and its corruptions, regardless of the foul smell of the world that clings to them, are evaluated first, then judged; not the other way around.

 

And is it even possible to stop feeding the tapeworm?  Have we perpetuated fraud ourselves by posting comments here?  Is the fee for the bandwidth charge the owner of the site will pay going to be used to pay an employee who will then pay an MS company, invest it in or with the companies that own MS companies, or support the products or services of a company that invests in or with MS companies?  Are the people driving to their computers at work to post on this site supporting the tapeworm economy by purchasing oil to fuel their cars, which profits companies like Halliburton, BP, Shell, who are in charge of our foreign policy of waging wars to gain oil, and giving the drug dealers more opportunities to steal the money of the poorest citizens of the planet and investing those profits, laundered through correspondent banks, into the very same MS fraud companies they’re attempting to expose the corruption of?

 

In essence, by attempting to expose the problem by using the weapons of the enemy, are we just supporting the enemy?  Is an evidently futile attempt even worthwhile?  Is it even an attempt?  Admittedly, I don’t know.  But I was here to explore, discover, and find out the answers to those questions that I have, regardless of financial, political, personal, or other gains.

 

Again, thank you for the site, the opportunity to post, the information, the responses, and the help (such that it has been).  I’m sure everyone on the board will have an awareness of all the information I’ve posted.  I sincerely hope that I am not holding myself out to be an expert on any of the issues raised.

 

Regards, good luck.  You have every right to be cautious and I respect many of the statements made here.

 

p.s., in terms of reading material for this week, Catherine Austin Fitts’ online book “Dillon Reed & The Aristocracy of Prison Politics” is recommended, although not directly relating to MS fraud.  She’s the “CA” from the interview in the pinned post “WHY THIS IS ALL HAPPENING TO EACH OF YOU.”

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needonenow

FF,

 

In your defense for a moment, some of the comments that were made to you, I felt were made in haste.

 

You're quite intelligent, so you surely must be aware of the "trusting" nature that we no longer possess.

In your last post you gave us a few things to think about. However, you yourself pointed out how No one is willing to help (us) the victims of MSFRAUD.

 

Your epistle, though you stated many things, all boiled down to that one fact. NO ONE CARES TO HELP, and by some chance we do find that ONE person willing to help, they are snubbed, ignored, deterred, rejected, all by the very people that have the ability to do something about these MSFRAUD cases, and Mort Serv. Co.'s.

 

From my heart I'm sorry if you are feeling snubbed yourself, by some of the other comments made on this board to you. Trust is now a huge issue as we have no one we can trust.

 

The scams, are plenty, and unfortunately many fall prey to those scams, even after they've already suffered from Fraud.

Knowledge is power and disappointingly enough, there are those who continue to trust, because they have not educated themselves with the facts surrounding the Mortgage Servicing Fraud Industry.

 

The dolorous synopsis' you used in your last post, and some of the realities within, are not of what is important in continuing this fight against mortgage servicing fraud.

 

The stock market? The stock market was around long before the fraudulently  "SERVICING" of Mortgages was a money maker, of sorts. There are hundreds of other commodities (if not thousands) where investors could continue to  make money in the Stock Market. It's a sad explanation to pose that investors are only investing in this fraud.

 

While I say that though, do you think we aren't aware of the investments made, that keep this scam running? There are more and more findings being uncovered daily, and how one thing relates to the other.

 

All in all FF, this is a very vast and complicated issue, for others to understand. I myself am still learning, and will continue to do so.

 

I'm aware that some of the fingers pointed at you have caused your iteration in areas that we are currently familiar with. However one of your statements made seems to irk me to no end.  "But homeowners seem to want help only when a problem manifests itself, and, even then, can not trace the problem to the cause.  The mortgage is only confronted at the point of foreclosure or sheriff sale, with “missed payments/not accepting payments/taxes weren't paid/insurance increased

 

In assuming that you didn't mean to insult the intelligence of a homeowner or "VICTIM" rather, I'll start by saying. These Mortgage Servicing Companies are good at their game FF. They are trained CONS, to the fullest extent.

 

Let me explain some things in hopes to redirect your thinking there. Your mortgage is fine now problems, Suddenly a Billing statement comes and Now there is a problem. You call the mortgage company, ask questions, they sweet talk you, "Oh no problem, that's nothing to worry, this information is for our use and does not directly effect your loan." The next month that problem is no longer on the Billing statement. BUT THAT PROBLEM IS STILL LAGGING AROUND ON YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF THIS.

 

A few months later, another problem, again you are sweet talked, and conned into believing what these people are telling you.

 

The next Statement, another problem. Now you're getting upset, and demanding answers to this and that from previous months. The cons, are tripping up on their words, and passing the buck to the other representatives until finally you either get tired of this (2-3-4 hour) phone call, or someone is finally able to CON you enough into believing that there is no problem with your account.

 

It is NOT THAT PEOPLE WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE TO GET HELP. It is because of the trust, and the good in the hearts of people.

 

Make no mistake, it's not that people have let the issues boil over, to a point of no return; These issues are DELIBERATLY HIDDEN FROM THE HOMEOWNER. When the Home Owner calls to rectify, THEY ARE CONNED BY trained CONNIVING, CONVINCING ARTISTS, otherwise known as representatives.

**AND IT IS NOT UNTIL THAT POT HAS BOILED THAT THE HOME OWNER THEN BECOMES AWARE OF ALL OF THE FRAUD AND DECEPTION THAT HAS CORRUPTED THEIR LIVES, AND QUALITY OF LIVES.

 

GENES, huh? CANCER may be in a persons genes, but studies have shown that STRESS is the leading factor of those cancerous genes becoming active.

 

Food? Huh?

Do you think a person reduced to HOT DOGS for the entire family is happy on only having enough money to feed the family such food as that on a daily basis?

 

Oh yes, FF, MSFRAUD affects all areas of life....... it can even effectively effect the food intake of a family.

 

Heart Attacks, and heart Disease? That too has be shown by studies that the American heart Society relies upon as well. Sure bad genes make people more susceptible to these illnesses, but they are activated upon, and by the stresses of someone's life. So lets not try to play those issues down when dealing with the stresses that each of us here (victims) are having to deal with, due to the Mortgage Servicing Industry and their deceptive practices, fraudulent fees, collection of illicit funds, extortion , conniving tactics, conspiracies, and illegal foreclosures.

 

Lets try not to make light of the stress issues that are horribly a MAJOR FACTOR in DEALING WITH SUCH an ATROCITY as this........ MORTGAGE SERVICING FRAUD

 

 

Now FF, did I misunderstand what you were saying about the illnesses associated with this? Were you, saying that the illness victims of MSfraud are suffering are due to their gene pools, and the way they live their lives?

 

If that was your stance then I redirect you back to this specific post and request you conduct research on stress, and the effects.

 

Lastly, I'm not the one to tell you to go away, and I'm not the one to say you are trying to prey on people already suffering at the hands of crooks. So don't misunderstand or misconstrue any of my comments made here. But do fully understand, a victim educated in the Mortgage Servicing Fraud is a cautious person.

 

AND NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.......................................

 

*******MORTGAGE SERVICING FRAUD SUCKS!*******

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needonenow:

Thank you for the response.  I didn't feel snubbed so much as shocked.  Shocked that people in your position would so quickly assume the worst, then ask for proof of innocence.  As I understand, presuming guilt is one of the ways the judicial system complies with MS fraud, and I was surprised to see victims of MS fraud taking on that dangerous characteristic.

However -- I understand the initial reaction and distrust now and I don't begrudge it.  In all of your defense, I would have reacted the same way if put in the same position.  In fact, I probably would have said things far worse, having had close personal experience with the types of scams you are referring to.  For ignorantly doing something that evoked a negative response, I apologize.  It was hasty and unempathetic, under the circumstances.

I see that putting a link to the site was a mistake, initially.  However, it was not to drum up business.  It's just a habit now, part of an online signature/business card, so to speak.  It's even included at the bottom of emails to my grandparents, upon whom I'd never wish MS fraud, foreclosure, or any misfortune.  But I believe if I had not posted the link, some of the hasty conclusions would not have been reached.  I have not included it since, and if the forum moderator wants to delete it, I would not object.  Nor would I object to keeping it, so readers know what part of the issue is/was at the beginning.

Thank you for explaining the process of discovery for a victim of MS fraud.  That did help me understand and realize that of course the perpetrators of the fraud would begin the defrauding of the client, "fix" the situation on paper only, and keep defrauding in other ways.  Sweet talking the client, as you said.  And many of the employees for these companies may think they are correcting the "mistakes," which seem to be fixed in their "system" but continuing to affect the account.

Although, these are just my attempts to wrap my mind around the inner working of the companies and may be based on a lack of information, at this point.  But the best tool is the one that doesn't know it's being used as a tool.

Your point about my statement did open my eyes. "But homeowners seem to want help only when a problem manifests itself, and, even then, can not trace the problem to the cause.  The mortgage is only confronted at the point of foreclosure or sheriff sale, with 'missed payments/not accepting payments/taxes weren't paid/insurance increased.'"  I may have underestimated the intelligence of a victim, or underestimated the cunning of the fraud.  You're right: people do try to fix the minor problems, are promised they are fixed, see that they keep arising in different or the same form, keep trying to fix them, and then are ambushed with a huge problem when they were sweet talked into believing things had been fixed.  You're right and I literally slapped my forehead for not seeing that.  Again, the little issues are all interrelated and build up to a huge case in the end.

But I think the stock market, drug money, money laundering, and government complicity do play a role even as MS fraud as a transfer of wealth from lower to higher.  It's another example of everything relating to one another.  Case in point: "In 2001, according to the International Monetary Fund, money laundering processed $1.5 trillion, a figure that exceeded the gross domestic products of all but the world's five largest economies."  What would happen if $1.5 trillion disappeared from the market every year?  Some of the money is laundered through the same lending/servicing institutions that commit MS fraud (and some goes straight to recognizable names: HP, Ford, Sony, GM, Whirlpool, GE, Phillip Morris).  Source: PBS Special: Drug Wars.

Drug money? Gov't complicity? Take a look at the CIA IG report released on 10/08/1998, for admissions of involvement, or a book called CIA Diary.  Why didn't we hear about the IG report in the press?  Well, if you remember, 10/08/1998 was the same day the impeachment of Pres. Clinton began in the House.  An estimated $600 billion of drug money is laundered every year.

The food analogy was only an analogy (the Dragonforce/MoMA/Shakespeare one wasn't much better, I admit).  I definitely wasn't saying that "the illness victims of MSfraud are suffering are due to their gene pools, and the way they live their lives."  Everyone suffers illnesses and to directly relate them to MS fraud in general would be quite silly and a shaky extrapolation, at best.

Genes, nutrition, etc. is a tangential issue (if that (and probably not at all!)) to MS fraud.  I'd be surprised if there was a direct relation between nutrition and being a victim of MS fraud. 

But again, check and double check your sources.  Many studies conducted on health are funded by companies that may not necessarily have health as their primary concern.  Case in point: Harvard Dept. of Nutrition, partial list of funding sources: California & Hawaiian Sugar Co., Campbell Soup Co., Coca-Cola (?), Frito-Lay, Inc., Kraft Corp., McDonald's Corp. (?!), Pillsbury Co.  Source: Zeitschrift fur Gastroenterologie.

FDA?  The former head of the US Health & Human Services, which oversees the FDA, is considering a bid for president in '08.  While head of HHS, the FDA approved the VeriChip, an implantable RFID chip, as a medical device.  Now the former head is on the board of VeriChip.  How about having your credit history, ruined by MS fraud, implanted into you?  A logical step after Patriot Act, Patriot Act II, and Military Commissions Act?  Source: SpyChips.

But the food analogy may have been misguided, and it's off-topic, although fascinating in its own right.  (Every societal collapse in history has had two things in common: currency deflation and soil degradation.)

Problems, problems, problems.  But the issue here is MS fraud, which I'm just beginning to understand, thanks to all here.  The confusion, the trust, the cunning, the lack of education, the promises, the belief in the inherent beneficence of humanity.  Thus far, I feel inadequately equipped to comment on the issue and its related effects reliably, except to realize it is a systemic problem.

I know I've painted a "dolorous" picture here, but as long as there are intelligent people (as I presume many of the contributors to the board to be) to expose and confront corruption, there's always hope.  Thank you for considering me "quite intelligent," although I am the first to admit that that statement may have been the most hasty of all so far. 

I think I've explained myself as much as I can, at this point.  I've gotten off-topic considerably, but felt it necessary in providing the requested explanation.  I appreciate everyone showing me deficiencies in my knowledge "map."  I feel less lost confronting the issue, and have learned from and paid for my initial mistakes.

But Thanksgiving is here, and I'd like to imagine that that, at least, is a tradition that has existed long before MS fraud and will exist long after MS fraud ceases to be a large-scale problem.  The traditions of human kindness and understanding will far outlast the effects of human corruption.

Happy Thanksgiving
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FF,

 

I'm currently Plaintiff in Federal Court vs. New Century, Provident (k/n/a National City) and Litton.  I filed my case Pro Se.  I did 3 1/2 years research.  I am now represented on a contingent basis.  I am helping educate my attorney in the many laws that are broken.

 

Just a piece of what was done to me:

 

I made my first payment.  The loan was assigned to another servicer in the first month.  The new servicer said I hadn't made my first payment.  I was immediately in first payment default and was told that I owed 3 payments and $2500 in legal fees in my second month.  It took them 90 days to figure out my payment had indeed been made.  It took 5 minutes.

 

Even if I had the money I doubt I would have paid it.  Several things happened, I was hospitalized, my Mom spent the last 4 months of her life in ICU in another state. 

 

We made 10 1/2 payments in 7 months to catch up.  All was great?

 

The servicer held the last 2 payments.  Sent letters saying that we were 3 payments behind plus $3500 in fees and foreclosed.  They still had the 2 payments in hand.

 

Now, I might not be the valedictorian of this class, but I ain't dumb.

 

There was absolutely nothing I could do different.

 

Oh, by the way.  Did I mention that in the second month my loan was marked 60 days delinquent at the credit bureaus?  I was unable to refi out.  Oh, and did I mention I have over $200,000 equity that I can't touch?

 

I am sure other stories out there are worse than mine.  I offer this as a peace offering and a bit more insight into the "SCAM".

 

Happy Thanksgiving All!!!!

Prayers go to all!

 

Bob

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Stephen

Your story is very valuable to all of us, not because misery loves company, but as fortification against the natural tendency to feel like a loser.

 

Happy Thanksgiving, Bob.

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needonenow

Bob, FF speaks with the tongue of a lawyer, rather than an individual here to learn about MSF.

F.F. you have succeeded in irking me once again. Pardon me, but what was that you stated? That you find it hard to believe that stress and the effects are even associated with Mortgage Servicing Fraud?

FF wrote:
Everyone suffers illnesses and to directly relate them to MS fraud in general would be quite silly and a shaky extrapolation, at best. After viewing your post and knowing first hand the effects of the stress involved with this MSF, I decided to "provide" you with some information. Please do feel free however to research stress yourself as it might provide for further insight to the "systemic" associations of undue stresses caused by the Mortgage Servicing Industry; scamming you for all the money you have, and leaving you moneyless to pay for other bills, all to have the thieves foreclose on your home? Or even the threat of such a possibility?

 

 I once heard a made up creative term, and it needs no explanation; "LAWYER MOUTH"!

 

Pardon me, for such a dub, but I'm sure it is apparent to others as well, that your speech represents that of someone who is here to "discover" things other than the MSF itself. You speak as if in defense of these companies, or as if you are trying to "PROVE" how one instance is not in direct correlation with another.

 

I now revert your thoughts back to your quote above, with some information for you to read.

 

 Jerome Kiffer, MA Jerome Kiffer is a senior psychology assistant at The Cleveland Clinic Foundation in the Section of General and Health Psychology. Kiffer has a master's degree in psychology. Getting Out From Under Stress: Jerome Kiffer http://www.webmd.com/content/article/2/1700_51642.htm

 

Another one? Gee? Stress can make us unhealthy? WHO WOULD HAVE "THUNK" THAT?

 

Cut Stress, Help Your Cholesterol Stressed Out? Better Relax for Your Cholesterol's Sake, Study Shows By Miranda Hitti WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD http://www.webmd.com/content/article/111/109990.htm

 

 

Genes, nutrition, etc. is a tangential issue (if that (and probably not at all!)) to MS fraud. I direct you to Webmd, for further education on stress. http://www.webmd.com

 

 I'd be surprised if there was a direct relation between nutrition and being a victim of MS fraud.

Again, another "LAWYER MOUTH" statement ........Are you saying that money grows on trees and if it doesn't a victim of this fraud should find a way to make it do so?

 

Further EXPLAINED details to allow you to comprehend only a fraction of the vicious cycles of Mortgage Servicing Fraud.

 

The Servicer claims "YOU OWE THEM" most people would chose to keep their homes,and all of the equity tied in; so therefore they have to come up with the money that is needed to keep their homes from the Foreclosure sale. (Albeit, even though those fees charged by the MS, are concocted from thin air, fraudulent, and illegally collected.)

 

 

Now where FF, do you suppose that family might get the funds to pay for the OTHER Necessary monthly bills? Car payments, Insurance, ELECTRICTY, WATER, FOOD? Try as you will, to remove the associations, but it cannot be done. If a victim of MS fraud has been reduced to having to pay these Fraudulently created Defaults, or the many, many other fees; which then reduces the money the family then has for the month to apply to the, other bills in life, don't you think their grocery bill might suffer as well?

 

Car payment (Man, that has to be paid, or bye, bye car. Bye bye car..... Bye, bye work......Bye bye work....Bye bye money.....Bye bye money.....Bye bye home.)

 

Mortgage payment, that's part of the American Dream, which hopefully you've grasped the concept of.

 

Insurances, (Well, it's against the law for a Car and a Home to not be covered. So that too has to be paid.)

 

ELECTRICTY, well this too has to be paid, unless the family would prefer to live in the dark, the HEAT or COLD, no place to store (low quality foods) 

 

Gas, water heaters, stoves, dryers.

 

Water, should we all be filthy? Should we all die of thirst?

 

Garbage, shall a person not pay the bill and allow garbage to pile up on their front lawn for the neighbors to enjoy?

 

And Food usually the last one on the monthly totem pole. How do you think a family can now afford to buy the same quality foods that they previously purchased?

 

OK, tell me FF, which monthly expense should the victim of MSF give up, so they can then afford to buy quality meats, and fresh vegetables? I direct you to your quote:

Quote:
But the food analogy may have been misguided, and it's off-topic, although fascinating in its own right.
Lastly, I direct you to your local grocer with note pad, calculator and pen. The average cost of eating proper and healthy foods at approximately $140.00 a week versus the processed, boxed, preserved, food items at $ 30-60.00 a week. Just to satisfy the hunger of your family?

 

Yes, F.F. quality is also an effect of MORTGAGE SERVICING FRAUD. When you cannot, afford to provide healthy foods for your family because your money has been stolen by these companies, this too has effected the quality of your life.

 

Boxed this, boxed that, instead of the fresh, and healthy quality food. As the bill payer and the chef of this family, I can tell you that the GROCERY bill, and the quality thereof does suffer as well.

 

Hamburger helper for dinner and (only hamburger helper) with the cheapest, ground beef you can find, consists of the "rolled" processed, preserved, pre-packaged, fatty, greasy, gristle meat.

 

Now this post is absolutely ridiculous, & absurd, as a person who has NOT experienced first hand, all the changes in life that have to be made, or are made because of MORTGAGING SERVICING, AND THEIR ILLEGAL COLLECTIONS, would have an extremely hard time realizing the realities that are suffered.

 

As a victim of this fraud FF, I deeply wonder how you could presume such things are not involved; In your defense, the only thing I can come up with is to believe that you have not educated yourself on all of the effects that create extreme life changing and altering events for the worst, when Mortgage Servicing Fraud has clenched your Family, and it's Finances.

 

Sure the FOOD is a minute issue. Is this maelstrom a direct correlation? Absolutely, unless the victim of MSFRAUD has an endlessly blooming "MONEY TREE" on the back corner of their yard.

Main Entry: cor·re·la·tion

1 : the state or relation of being correlated ; specifically : a relation existing between phenomena or things or between mathematical or statistical variables which tend to vary, be associated, or occur together in a way not expected on the basis of chance alone.

 

 

Educate yourself, visit http://www.webmd.org, and visit your local grocer with pen, notepad, and calculator. Fill your buggy with high quality foods, for the week, for your family. Now fill another buggy with the cheapest, foods you can find, to feed your family for a week. There is a major, difference in the amount of money spent; and SEVERE difference in the qualities of the food so please, let's not pretend to speculate for one second, that these issues are not in some cases direct, or in some cases indirect correlation of Mortgage Servicing Fraud.

 

I apologize to the moderator for the wasted space here, and to all veterans of this board, for this post.

 

Simply stated, FF, you will never fully understand all the things associated with the life of living hell that we must live daily, due to the illegal SERVICING of our loans.

CORRUPTION has CORRUPTED our once happy lives.

 

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needonenow

sorry, I don't know what happened to my post there.

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needonenow
a page from the past, a small reminder of how we suffer so.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/ssgoldstar/vpost?id=953480

Link doesn't work,
please post correct one.  TY
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4 justice now

Bob,

 

Your experience is nearly identical to ours... thanks to the criminals at Ocwen, also known as: "Feces-R-us"

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 I once called the "Are you a Victim of Mortgage Fraud" You see the site all over the place. Along with it's many other links that bring you there. I was in foreclosure. These people wanted 7,500 to start with. Then there was going to be other fees such as filing, attorney's etc. There was no guarantee of the outcome. No refund policy. If anyone is facing possible fraud or foreclosure I urge you to call your local commissioners and state attorneys office. Hud will also help but they are slow. Keep all your paperwork. Send them copies and your complaint. Do this all before allowing a company such as this take your money. If I had that kind of money I would not have been in foreclosure to start with. Arm yourself with knowledge, don't let fear and anxiety take over. Get Mad. And always refer to forums such as this for support. I have found this site to be extremely helpful but also frightening. One can easily be overcome with hopelessness in the knowledge of huge corporations getting away with murder. My story is not that far off from many but I have found ways to fight. The right to rescind, is always a good place to start. If any of you did not receive this form at closing your right to exercise it lasts for three years! Not the three days normally for the "cooling off period". There are also many other disclosures that are mandatory before and after closing. All these documents are to be held by your servicer for 3 years at least. Also the TILA right to sue is one year but if fraud is found you can still exercise this right. Another is all real estate agents and brokers have a code of ethics. This is another line of defense. One along with many others I am using. Personally I'm mad as hell over what was done to me because of my ignorance in purchasing a home. I called the previous owner the other day asking him why I ended up paying 11,000 more than the agreed upon price. His response. "Because your a ditsy B*&#!. and you deserved it. He now is being sued along with his broker, the title company and I have rescinded my agreement as well with Countrywide. Let them chew on that for awhile. Most of the paperwork you can file yourself. What would be nice is if attorneys and lawyers would share their knowledge more freely to victims of fraud on this site and any other. We can't afford our defense usually. I guess it's all about the money!!!!!!!! Where are these pro-bono attorneys.

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Good for you Diane! If we all fought the shoe would be on the other foot actually the momentum is turning in our favor because people are becoming aware of the scam and more people are armed with the truth and fighting back.
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To all,

I have just found out that foreclosure has been activated on my property following a horrible battle to keep the home.  Its a long long story, which I am sure more then one of you have gone through.  I have read all of the statements on this blog and find it all very interesting.  I am currently in discussion with this guy from Foreclosure Fish and trying to get a finger on what my best options are.  I am going to try to fight it myself however, and hire an attorney to hold things up a little bit.  After researching the Internet and seeing all of the animals out there that offer to work with your lender for you, I think they are all scams!  WHO THE HELL CAN WE TRUST ANYMORE!!  Mortgage scamming should be a Felony, period!  We can afford our home, even though it is in Northern VA and expensive.  After loosing two jobs due to cut backs in the Air Freight Industry, we fell behind.  During this time, we agreed to a few programs through our lender and believe me, it is not in the home owners favor at all.  Each time, your payments go up.  Their idea of a plan is to get all their money back in 5-7 months.  Once it is finally out of reach all together, all the home owner is doing is buying time and hoping for a miracle or for the lender to offer some other solution.  It just doesn't happen.
I also think that a lender needs to have a cap on the dollar amount it is aloud to make on a home over a 30 year period!  Our home is financed at 8.5% and by the end of 30 years, we will have paid 900,000 for a 300,000 dollar home.  That's messed up pretty bad.  Then they have the nerve to stick their hands in your pockets even deeper.  I could go on and on about this. 
Since I have stated my own company and it is going very well.  Now I need to find out what to do to save my home.  If anybody has any real advice, please share.  I will also share my experience and if I have any success with either Foreclosure Fish or the combination of lawyers and self help I will absolutely share this information.

I hope more people see this site, unlike that goofy ripoff.com site, and post.  **Foreclosure Fish, if your reading this, this could be your chance to prove yourself to allot of folks.**  You have a shot at working with me next week.  Lets see what happens.  I don't think anybody minds a solution being involved in discussion.  Its simply that we are all pretty tired of scams and are ready to take action.  When the dust settles from this, I am going to dedicate time to making sure that I crush the couple of assholes that have even tried to scam me through this process, and God bless them.  Myself and a few other folks here in Northern VA have decided to pull our collective strengths together and see where it might take us.

PS>  To let everybody here know.  I have actually spoken with the guy for Foreclose Fish.  We communicated several times, he was honest and emailed me several packages and self Mitigation tools for free.  We decided to use both tools at the same time and see which one ended up being the best option for my family and which one would be accepted by the bank.  It actually made some sense, and more sense than some of these idiots that just want 1500.00 to Mitigate.  He was very helpful, but most importantly honest.  That doesn't mean in any way that he is not also a scam artist folks!!!  We will find out soon enough.  My biggest concern is that he is simply selling a product and working on commission.  Therefore, money will blind him and he may not realize that the investor he places you with might scam us.  In the end, a scam is a scam!  Every person involved in that process is as guilty as the actual scammer.  All documents and paperwork from Foreclosure Fish is being reviewed by my Attorneys next week.  Stay tuned!  Lets see if this guy is real. 


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Back again,

Wow!  FF is getting allot of mixed attention in here.  LOL.  I bet this poor guy isn't sure what to think.  If your an honest person, and have an honest product, then you should fear not.  Stand up for yourself and fight.  Just because you maybe bought your home prior to the rise in costs or the Mortage Industry changing, or purhaps, you like some more fortunate people haven't suffered carrier changes, doesn't make you an idiot.  Your just not informed.  Do yourself a favor, don't look at these posts in a negative way, read them and learn.

I was a Corporate Officer of a large company out of PA for 17 years.  Just after 911, I needed a change and left the company.  Went to CF, which went under 4 months later.  They where the 2nd largest LTL carrier in the United States and where the oldest.  From there, I was the Manager of Eagle Globals facility in Washington DC.  They closed that facility down and I decided not to relocate to BWI. From there I was the CEO of Land Express.  Point is, we are not all stupid, or people that have a problem managing money or just run around making bad choices.  We didn't buy houses that we couldn't afford.  Yes, the people that bought under the Interest Only programs where fools!  That was kind of asking for an ass kicking in the end.  But most of the folks that are here are probably just like you and I.  At todays prices, who the hell can afford to save the down payment?  So we get sold and talked into these Hybrid finance deals.

What happens is this.  You loose a job.  Unemployment pays nothing!  You submit hundreds of resumes and due to the fact that it can take up to 90 days to secure a new job, your just not going to make your mortgage.  WHY YOU ASK?  Because, your freaking lender will not accept less than a full payment!!  Make sense?  We have two mortgages.  A large one, and a much smaller one.  We never missed a payment on the smaller one, and tried like hell to work with the larger.  But when you have no grace period on their lovely repayment plan, your screwed!!  For instance.  I have mulitple checking accounts with three different banks.  My wife has her own, I have my own and we have joint.  Then we have an account that is set up just to hold our mortgage money in.  When you call to set up your payment, they want draft information right then.  In my case, it varied from week to week where the money may come into.  My Mortgage company wouldn't set the thing up for the 1st or the 16th.  That was because they can only go out 7 days from the date you make the arrangements.  So what would happen was that about 2 days before the draft I would find out that the funds where hitting another account and call them to change the account information.  The money was there in full.  Three time this happened in 5 months.  They couldn't change it.  They said that they did, but then the day came and they hit the wrong account!!!  Causing major fees.  We called to tell them to stop, they couldn't stop it because it was electronic.  From there it was set to hit 3 times!!!!  So for the next week, they hit our account.  You can't block thier draft because there are no numbers attached.  We finally had to close the account.  My wife is a manager at the bank and almost lost her job over this.  When this crap happens, you now can't afford the payment, and now you have broken their program and have to take another.  Now the payment is 300.00 more than the last time.  So tell me, what does a home owner do?  My original payment was 1902.00.  Today it is 4475.00!!  Hmmmmm?  In addition, we had 900 is suspense.  One month we decided to use the suspense money and just add 1000 to it to make a full payment.  When we called, they said that they could not take a partial payment!!!!  What the hell was that about.  Chew on this stuff!!  When you have your lights turned off and have to pay extra money to turn them back on, or the same with your water, it really beats ya down.  This is all a product of the Mortgage company.  Everything is a product of an action.  We actually got to a point that we would just laugh about it and keep moving.  All of the sudden, ever sharing my money with anybody, especially a Mortgage company or anybody in this industry doesn't taste good to me.  We simply want honesty and integrity.  Normal grace periods on our loans and some kind of reasonable back up plan offered by the Mortgage company.  FOOD FOR THOUGHT
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Nye Lavalle
We need to take these types of services off the site and not let them freely advertise their services without a thorough vetting.
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Foreclosure Fish wrote:
Quote:
please note that the MS fraud website home page does not show up correctly on Mozilla Firefox browsers with a version number of 1.5.0.8, effectively making 5-7% of the internet-using population unable to view the forum, legal lounge, and other sections of the site.  I had to view the site in IE7 to see there was a menu on the left side of the screen.


Thank you for letting us know about the above problem.  We had a volunteer offer to rebuild the entire site to make it easier to navigate.  While working on the Home Page to make it viewable in all browsers, the volunteer's computer crashed and she can't afford a new one, so it will be sometime before we can fix the problem.  We apologize to everyone for the inconvenience.

MSF
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startingmybook
Nye Lavalle wrote:
We need to take these types of services off the site and not let them freely advertise their services without a thorough vetting.
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t

This is a rather fascinating ancient thread which seems to show that the Forum has long suffered from swindlers using posts to steer distressed borrowers into various loan modification scams and debt elimination scams.

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