Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
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arkygirl
Down .34 to below $8.00 (7.74) The chart line looks like the edge of a cliff and I pray that OCN falls off!

Looks like the ongoing downward trend will continue. Maybe OCN will finally die, then we can all start asking: "Where's the money?" I vote for the Caymans...maybe Rangoon.

Wonder if OCN is paying its lawyers? OCN has a history of stiffing vendors and the cases keep coming....and coming...and coming.

I think OCN is done. It may stagger along long enough to transfer its ill-gotten gains, but I don't think it is going to recover. On the other hand, it has surprised me before. Maybe it still has some life support hidden in the wings.

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Ed

If the stock price drops far enough someone will offer to buy all the shares and take it private. Those SEC filings make it harder to conceal what's going on.

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arkygirl
Maybe so. Maybe it will be Bill and John Erbey against the world. It might be easier to sue these fraudsters if the company was privately owned? Get an investigation going under private ownership? Get away from OCN, period?

How do you think this will affect OCN's worldwide operations? Will it move to India looking for new prey?

As for SEC filings, OCN makes them as rarely as possible and who knows if they are accurate. The only place I could even find a list of insider trades was at Reuters OCN; look at the dates pasted below. Not very current....OCN is unable to track a mortgage correctly so I figure their overall bookkeeping is just as sloppy.

08/28/07         GOSS MARTHA CLARK         Director         Gift         2,124         $0.00
08/28/07         KORN RONALD J         Director         Gift         2,124         $0.00
08/28/07         WISH BARRY N         Director         Gift         2,124         $0.00
05/08/07         FARIS RONALD M         President         Sell         1,109         $13.97
05/08/07         FARIS RONALD M         President         Gift         10,488         $13.97
05/08/07         FARIS RONALD M         President         Gift         15,882         $11.88
05/08/07         GUNTER DAVID J         Chief Financial Officer & Senior Vice President         Gift         3,461         $11.88
05/08/07         LINN W MICHAEL         Executive Vice President         Sell         1,283         $13.97

http://stocks.us.reuters.com/stocks/insiderTrading.asp?symbol=OCN&WTmodLOC=L2-LeftNav-20-InsiderTrading

Down .66 now at 7.42 right now. It sure looks like investors have lost confidence in OCN. Its fun to watch the slide anyway.

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4 justice now
Hello Arky:

I for one can't wait to see the day that Ocwen and its entire gang of cowardly thieves get flushed back down into the cesspool from which they crawled, of course with John and Billy leading the way.

But again that's just my own opinion... Not that I really don't expect to find many Ocwen supporters around here, or else where with the exception of those that have been bought and paid for.

R,

4J
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4 justice now
Oops:

Hello Arky:

I for one can't wait to see the day that Ocwen and its entire gang of cowardly thieves get flushed back down into the cesspool from which they crawled, of course with John and Billy leading the way.
                                                 I meant to remove the word don't below
But again that's just my own opinion... Not that I really don't expect to find many Ocwen supporters around here, or else where with the exception of those that have been bought and paid for.

R,

4J

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I'm not sure what this forum is mainly about, but I am trying to find out info on OCWEN. I read it is known as OCN. My issue is not with a mortgage but with them trying to collect a debt by phone. This debt is not ours (yeah I know..they all say that) but obviously some other person with my husband's last name. They say it was an account with Fingerhut. The first phone call just wanted me to give them my bank account number. I asked for verification...they couldn't give it to me. They gave me an address that was not ours. They said if I didn't pay the phone calls would continue. And please note, this was info that was supposedly on my husband's name, not mine. As far as I know, it is illegal to discuss such matters with anyone other than the person on the account (unless otherwise indicated) and their lawyer.
Nevertheless, we've had quite a few phone calls from them, and they will not give us any other informaton other than what we supposedly owe. They insist we need to give them my husband's SS number to verify before they give info over the phone. Yet they cannot give us info to verify it is legit.
At first I thought it was a scam to get one's bank account and SS #, which in a way I still see it as such...but I believe it really is OCWEN based in Orlando & Winter Park FLA.
I've read about all the lawsuits against this company. Anyone have any suggestions on how to handle this? They've never sent us anything in writing, and the only reason I hesitate sending them a letter is because I feel like that would give them info on us that they obviously do not have. They have an account from some other name, and are just trying to collect it from someone not caring if that someone is the original account holder or not.
cfp
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We deal with Mortgage Servicing Fraud issues here.

"OCN" is the stock ticker for Ocwen Financial.

Sounds a tad odd for Ocwen to be collecting on consumer debt but I don't put anything past servicers anymore.

Couple things I can think of off the top:

1.) If you haven't already, ask them what "OCN" stands for. You may get an actual response from someone. Unfortunately, nothing popped just now when I searched OCN debt collection other than Ocwen Financial. Ask them for a business mailing address to contact them at.

2.) Brush up on FDCPA for the next phone call. There are points that you can mention to the next caller that may be useful.

3.) Start looking for a good consumer protection attorney. That may ultimately be the only way to stop this harassment.

4.) Check with your state Secretary of State Corporations division and the Banking Depts to see if the company is licensed/registered as a debt collector.
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cfp
Thanks for the info Mike D. I did realize that OCWEN was in trouble with mortgage loans etc. On the phone they act exactly like all those scams/frauds that you hear about...asking for a bank account number right off etc. And they will not give us any info but expect us to verify to them etc.  If this is a legitimate debt collector, they are obviously doing things that do not seem legal.

But thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I know now it seems like a small issue but I've heard things like this can truly screw up one's credit rating etc. And the issue is that we know for certain they simply have the wrong person. They couldn't get hold of anyone else and simply looked it up in a phone book.

Thanks again.
cfp
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If you've got a phone number to call them at feel free to shoot it to me. I'll see if I can find anything out for you. Just a #. Don't need any other info.

And you're absolutely correct in that if this somehow gets attached to your credit report, however erroneously, it'll potentially be a mess and a half to clean up.
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arkygirl
Ocwen has started a collection agency called "Ocwen Recovery Group" in tandem with NCI. It appears to be one of those "bottom feeders" that will buy up old debts that are out of SOL. In all fairness they may hire out to do legitimate collections (I simply don't know) but I have heard these stories before.

Be very careful if you call them; you could inadvertently re-age the debt if you say the wrong thing. I would suggest getting a mailing address and putting your problem in writing and sending certified mail. Good luck!

Here's a weblink:

https://www.ocwenbusiness.com/bs_collections.cfm

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arkygirl
In the interests of seeing OCN go down in flames, I am going to help you with this problem if the moderators will allow it. I am sick to death of the Kamikaze tactics used by Ocwen and all the rest of the low-down sleazebags calling themselves "debt collectors" and "mortgage servicers"...aaargh!

DO NOT talk to them on the phone. Force Ocwen to validate the debt-sample letter below. Always use Certified Mail...ALWAYS. DO NOT give them information; force them to give you information. Treat them as the enemy because, honey, they ARE. Once you have mailed the validation demand, tell the monkey on the end of the phone that it has been mailed and all contact will be in writing. Tell them not to call you anymore; they must write a letter.

You can contact Bud Hibbs at his website for further help with this. He specializes in this nonsense.  http://www.budhibbs.com/

Here is a sample letter for you to use as your first step:

Under the Federal Debt Collection Practices Act, you are allowed to challenge the validity of a debt that a collection agency states you owe to them. Use this letter to make the agency verify that the debt is actually yours and owed by you. Keep a copy for your files and send the letter registered mail.

Your Name
123 Your Street Address
Your City, ST 01234

ABC Collections
123 NotOnYourLife Ave
Chicago, IL

Date:

Re: Acct # XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on September 30, 20xx). Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:

# What the money you say I owe is for;
# Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
# Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
# Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
# Identify the original creditor;
# Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
# Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state
# Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

    * Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
    * Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
    * Defamation of Character

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Best Regards,

Your Signature
Your Name


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Joe B

AG and others-

     I absolutely and wholeheartedly endorse what is being said here. I have used similar letters from bogus creditors who claim I owe them money from medical bills on other people, credit cards that were never mine, but had a number transposed, etc. I initially tried nicely worded letters (not these types of "verification" letters though) to get them to fix these obvious errors, but they kept pestering me on the phone and in writing. After getting smart, I used similarly worded letters to fix these issues with terrific results.

     The only thing I would consider changing is the threat to sue, and otherwise accuse them of fraud on the first letter. The only reason I suggest this is that it automatically puts the other side on the defensive, and they might just take a hard line to make you prove it! These people know the laws (even the ones they break!)! Usually, simply by just forcing them to prove the validity of the debt, along with the citations mentioned by AG should be enough for them to get the hint.

    If they still pursue you, then I would go full bore with the aggressive language. However, the success you have with a proper validation, citing the appropriate statutes, should be enough for them to get the idea. Then they can either prove the debt is yours, and the you can figure it out, or prove it is not yours and leave you alone!

     In my cases, either they did the appropriate homework and realized the debt wasn't mine, or they sold it to someone else... I did ultimately have to use the stronger language AG recommends against one firm that would just not give up. The stronger language I used in this case put that one to rest as well.

     My $.02 for whatever it is worth. Good luck!

JB
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arkygirl
Joe, I realize that the threat to sue for credit report attacks included with the letter is a bit antagonistic. There is a reason for it, though.

Here's the deal behind that. Scumbag Ocwen collector calls hapless person screaming that poor hapless owes big money for some debt hapless has never heard of, let alone signed up for. Scumbag immediately starts yelling about hapless giving up bank account or credit card numbers. Scumbag makes threats against hapless' credit report (invariably they do it, legal or not) Antagonism already exists brought about by scumbag's Kamikaze attack. These scumbags will literally blow themselves up to get a dime from poor hapless.

The first thing any consumer has to do is let scumbag know that hapless knows and understands his own rights under the law. Scumbag should already know that he can be sued for monkeying around with credit reports after a validation demand is entered. Hapless needs to let scumbag know that he also knows and give scumbag fair warning that steps will be taken if scumbag follows up on the threats against the credit report.

If the debt remains unvalidated and scumbag attacks the credit report anyway, hapless has a better standing when it comes to legal action. Scumbag cannot say he was unaware of the penalties for placing unvalidated debts on hapless' credit report since hapless gave scumbag the necessary info in the validation request.

Joe, this is OCWEN cfm is dealing with here....king of sleaze and false credit reporting to damage people for it's own benefit. Ocwen, that never admits a mistake, ever, even in court under oath. Lying, stealing, foreclosure happy, home-wrecking Ocwen. Ocwen WILL persist. Personally I would go full bore, throttles wide open from beginning to end if it was me confronting anything to do with Ocwen. However, cfm will ultimately make the decision. I feel that the strong language is warranted considering the adversary, cfm may not.

You are right in that any mistake can usually be resolved easily with one fairly mild-mannered letter pointing out the error. That would be a good approach with some other honest company. I just wouldn't use it for Ocwen. Ocwen has been found guilty of a lot of things and honesty was not one of them.
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4 justice now
AG is absolutely right about Ocwen. They are the most extreme group of criminals that most would ever have the misfortune of dealing with. Nothing at all is beneath them, and it's obvious they have some very powerful friends in Washington to help them get by with it. These are the same scumbags that lost a major case just a few years ago and were ordered to pay a Multimillion dollar judgment to two female OCN employee plaintiffs because they had been video taped while they were in the company's restroom. I can't confirm this part of the story, but an OCN insider posted that one of the plaintiffs was the CEO's secretary.

They also lost three big cases in TX (one award was for $11 mil and two others for $3 mil ea.) for their very creative, criminal mortgage servicing. The $11 mil judgment was awarded (for a short period anyway) to an eighty-five year old ex-nurse who they had tried to defraud out of her home (actually they may have been successful in their fraud, I just don't recall for sure). Most likely, this poor old lady will never be able to collect because of the Lengthy appeals process and/or corruption involved.

Just my opinion.

R, 4J
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cfp
Thanks for all the help! I hadn't checked back here until now, and was surprised to see the responses.
After all the research on this company, I do agree that they are scum. If they use these tactics to try and sqeeze $900 or so out of someone, I can't imagine what they do when dealing with your homes. That's what confused me when I did all the research. All I could find was their crooked dealing concerning home mortgages. I believe I only found one site about their "asset recovery" department etc. It's a bit vague.  
I had researched some of those form letters to send them so I suppose that will be the next step. I was just concerned that if I send them the address, will that somehow attach us to this debt?

I see them as just trying to get the money out of someone, no matter who it is.
Thank you again so much. They've called about 6 times so far, so I expect another call soon.

cfp
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Document each and every one of those calls CP. Name, date, time and the actual number if possible. I believe that it's FDCPA that mandates only one single contact of any kind with a debtor per day but you should absolutely contact an attorney for exact clarification and interpretation. If I'm not mistaken, penalties range between $200 and $1000 per incident after the first contact is made each day.

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Oh, and to put the $900 into perspective - it may not seem like much when it's coming from just one individual. Look at the big picture though, if you take $900 from 100,000 people....$90,000,000.

For those playing along at home, that also works in reverse for those with philanthropic beliefs that are constrained by their wallets. If one million people donate one dollar to a specific cause...
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