Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
Articles |The FORUM |Law Library |Videos | Fraudsters & Co. |File Complaints |How they STEAL |Search MSFraud |Contact Us
As to eliminate the confusion, I am re-posting my situation.

We are currently in foreclosure due to loss of income and adjusting arm. When we took this loan we were told we could re-fie out in 2 years before our arm adjusted. It wasn't until now that I have taken a good look at our loan papers and discovered what I believe to be fraud! When foreclosure was first started we were summoned, 4 days later we received a revised summons adding the previous owners to the summons, stating they need to reform the deed.

The reason for the second summons was wrong legal description on the deed
and in the mortgage. Therefore the property was never fully transferred to us.

This put a red flag up, thus I started to investigate things, and contact attorneys. Never the less feeling completely stupid for not seeing any of this from the beginning, but we needed this loan.

Loan originated in 2005 with Argent as the lender
Servicer was Ameriquest, then AMC, then transferred to Home EC with in the first year.

These are things I have discovered since all this occurred:

They have over appraised our house
Over stated my husbands income.
Where told the arm would adjust every 12 months, wrong, It's every 6 months. So it has adjusted twice now. Starting at @7%, now at 10.3%
Wrong SS#, birth dates on the loan application.
Truth and lending statement shows 24 months @ 1042.07, 335 @ 1242.51 and 1 @ 1227.21 not including taxes and insurance which we have escrow-ed.
   Our payments are currently @ 1335.47 not including taxes and insurance
Wrong legal description on deed- You can clearly tell someone used whiteout on the part of the legal description that was supposed to be on the deed.
The deed also has the wrong county on it, but was filed in the right county?

The title company used is no longer in business.
Funny thing - I have recently found out that the same person used to do the appraisal not only did the appraisal, but owned the title company as well!
  They were in the same building as the mortgage company.
Also, not sure but the same last name owns the Mortgage company we used.
They attorney used to file the deed has been suspended for a year from practicing in Ohio and New York, for foreclosure fraud.

We have tried to work with Homeq, but no luck. We have offered them the payments we are behind. And a forbearance plan on the rest, which is attorney fees they have added. The plan they gave us, we cannot afford.
We will not go into a forbearance plan, to turn around and have this happen again in a few months.
We have been working with HUD counselors that have stated we need a loan modification, but Homeq has stated they do not due loan Mods, as they are not the lender.

We have asked for the lenders name ( verbally) and have received 3 different names. In hopes we could contact them for a loan Mod. Therefore leading us to believe they do not know who has our note! There have been no assigns at the court house, it is still shows Argent has our note! I know that our attorney will ask for this information in discovery. We just want this to be over! We really don't want it to go that far.

At this point we do have an attorney, she has requested extra 28 days to respond to the summons. We have tried to re-fi, but have bad credit due to struggling with every thing. We are not looking for a way out! We created our debts and plan to pay for them. All of the loan Mods that the government is coming out with we will not qualify for. At this point we are at a loss as to what to due. 
But we due feel we have been duped!!!!
  Hope this helps clarify everything! As I stated before I am the only one who has been posting as HELP. No other names.
Any information and help would be great, as I have already received a wealth of info from this sight.


Quote 0 0
srsd
Help,    I noticed you said that you VERBALLY got 3 different answers about the lender....DO NOT talk to anyone at this point......get everything in writing.  You need to start with getting your papers organized.  Start making a list of questions. Start writing down anything that you suspect is wrong. Write the company a QWR letter.  You can Google QWR letter and find an example.
Anytime you send something to the company you are dealing with, send it certified so you will have proof that you have sent letters and keep a copy of everything. Keep any reply...even the envelopes they come in.
Get a copy of your mortgage that is on file at the court house.
If you have justed started to find things wrong, you will probably find a lot more. Go back and read all of the post that you can on this message board and I am sure you will find others that have been dealing with a situation like yours.  This is a long process so be prepared to deal with this everyday of your life until things get settled. Hang in there...you are not the only one dealing with this problem.
Quote 0 0
Question?
 Is the mortgage on file at the court house different than the one they sent with the summons?

also, I have heard they are going after Argent, is there any truth to this?
I haven't seen any class actions, only individual, and none in Ohio.

I can't understand Why the were not inclluded in the Ameriquest one. They are all the same, Ameriquest, AMC, Argetn?
Thanks HELP
Quote 0 0
~beenawhile

Help wrote:
Question?
 Is the mortgage on file at the court house different than the one they sent with the summons? What mortgage are you speaking of? Do you mean a copy of your entire loan documents? No there will not be an entire copy of your loan documents at the courthouse. The only thing that should be there is the title to the property? Maybe some other things, I'm not 100% sure. But it will not have the entire copy of your loan.


I can't understand Why the were not inclluded in the Ameriquest one. They are all the same, Ameriquest, AMC, Argetn?
Thanks HELP  Alright here is a prime example as to how to explain this. (I'm using my servicer, as it is easier.)
EMC is not a "private" entity. By this i mean, It is not EMC and EMC only.
IT is a Subsidiary----- or------- a SISTER Company of BEAR STEARNS.
 
ok, it is known that BEAR STEARNS owns many companys some of them would be the following
 
Ameriquest            -------and-------      EMC
 
Those companies have their own names, their own offices, ad their own employees, so if Ameriquest were to get into trouble (which they have) it would ultimatley be only Ameriquest, that was in trouble, (at least this is the way it appears to be happening through the laws)
 
So even though AMERIQUEST may have gotten into trouble, it does not mean that it has ULTIMATELY affected the BIG BAD Daddy of BEAR STEARNS.
 
 
When Ameriquest got in trouble, from my understanding there could have been several outages for Ameriquest. They could have:
1. Filed for Bankruptcy, and not paid a red cent to anyone.
2. Filed for Bankruptcy and paid the charges over time.
3. Sold All of their loans to another SERVICER.
4. Sold some of their loans to another SERVICER, and kept some for themsleves, to continue SERVICING.
5. They could have CHANGED their NAME, to another COMPANY, and still kept all of the same loans they had at the time of the ruling.
6. They could have closed their doors completely.
 
It is also possible that some of the above mentioned ways could have been done in a combination of ways, meaning maybe, they could have done #'s 1 and #5 in combination.
 
I don't exactly know what avenue Ameriquest has taken other than closing its doors.
Others here who know more will correct me if I'm worng, about any of the above, and they will explain, what DID happen.
 
But to answer you question, No---- just because a company is a sister company of another, and ultimately owned by a BIG BAD wolf, or a BIG BAD BEAR, does not mean that the sister Company(ies) are in trouble at this point in time.
 
Each is their own entity, and operates as their own entity, and answers to their own, failures as a company in whole.
 
Someone please help me if I've given tht information incorrectly.
Thanks, and hope it helps some.




Quote 0 0
Posted by SRSD
 
Get a copy of your mortgage that is on file at the court house.

This is what I was referring to.
Quote 0 0
~beenawhile
that would be your title.

If you live in a mobile home, it would probably include other documents as well.

how far away do you live from your court house?

Quote 0 0
^

Help wrote:
Posted by SRSD
 
Get a copy of your mortgage that is on file at the court house.

This is what I was referring to.

the wrong word was used. its not a copy of your mortgage its a copy of your title
Quote 0 0
HurtByAmeriquest

They should have a copy of your mortgage also at the court house, they had a copy of mine.

Quote 0 0
If I were you, I would just go to the court house and ask to see the file they have on your street address.

Be nice and say something like:  There is something wrong with my mortgage
could you please help me figure it out?

It may have nothing in it since you say it is for the wrong address and wrong county.

Next I'd go to the other county and ask to see that file.

Part of the money you gave for the down payment is for title insurance.

It would seem to me, you need to find out who insures that title company
on the date they issued their report.

I'd just see if there is something called the insurance commissioner.
It might be called something different in your state but should be
easily recognizable.

Give them the date of the report, maybe even a copy of the cost sheet
that shows they were used for it.

Of course, anything to do with mortgages anymore is going to be highly
suspect for fraud.  you have to get your stuff together to be able to
prove anything you assert is wrong.

Tell your attorney about this, he could probably do it for you but I rather
imagine you'd rather do it your self than pay him to do it.

He should be able to file suit naming the insurance company that issued
the errors and omissions policy for the title company.

Ask your lawyer about filing for a temporary restraining order to stop foreclosure before they even get started.  This would seem appropriate
to me as one of the ways a borrower can get out of mortgage servicer
hell is to sell the property.  This option is closed to you since the title
has been screwed up.  In other words, since the title is not clear and correct, you cannot sell your house cure the debt.

Mike's attorney was granted the temporary restraining order.  It turned into a permanent restraining order.  His servicer cannot foreclose until this judge
says they can.

Works for me.

Dee

Quote 0 0
just a little reminder
Seems to me we all forget from time to time that in different parts of the Country, things are referred to by different names, different terms as used to describe things and since there are no universal laws covering to public filing of deeds, titles and the the like, different laws. For sure it adds to the confusion.

In some places it is the Registry of Deeds where a person should be able to get a copy of all assignments of deed and mortgage on their property. Where I live this includes being able to get copies of the note and mortgage. The registry is not part of the court system here but its own entity.

That being said, my state has nothing on the books forcing a company to file anything with the registry until such a time as they try to foreclose. The prevailing thought process from people I have talked to is that they have been taking it on faith that the companies are filing the appropriate paperwork in the normal course of business, they now know this is not true.

Quote 0 0
Ohio
Help--

Are you in Ohio?? If so, which county.
Quote 0 0
I am in Ohio, although I am not real comfortable saying what county?
Can I ask....why you ask?
Sorry no offense,just don't trust to many.
Help
Quote 0 0
OHIO
uhhhh maybe because I'm in Ohio too...I may be able to give you a heads up on the county recorders office....among other things.....There are thousands of filings in every ohio county...making it impossible and quite honestly a waste of my time to determine your identity.

I take you at face value...I don't need to know who you are or any other identifying info.

You have every right to be leary but I'm not one of the bad guys...I promise.
Quote 0 0
Sorry, just trying to be cautious that's all.

We are in Medina
Quote 0 0
OHIO

nooooooooo problem! Let me see what I can find on that county.

Quote 0 0
OHIO
Try this link:

http://www.recorder.co.medina.oh.us/fcquery.htm

and see if you come up with anything.
Quote 0 0
Quote:
The title company used is no longer in business.
Funny thing - I have recently found out that the same person used to do the appraisal not only did the appraisal, but owned the title company as well! They were in the same building as the mortgage company.
Also, not sure but the same last name owns the Mortgage company we used.

Holy cow.....Are you kidding me???? Are you sure?! Would you be willing to send me his name so I can check his licensing information and true affiliations. Were you informed in writing of any of these affiliations???

Quote:
They attorney used to file the deed has been suspended for a year from practicing in Ohio and New York, for foreclosure fraud.


Do you know if he did any other doc preparation? May I have his name too??

You can email me this information if you prefer.....But PLEASE send as soon as you can........
Quote 0 0
Ohio
Please check your email....

Quote 0 0
Quote:
Originally posted by help
When foreclosure was first started we were summoned, 4 days later we received a revised summons adding the previous owners to the summons, stating they need to reform the deed.


Quote:
Originally posted by help
At this point we do have an attorney, she has requested extra 28 days to respond to the summons.



I do NOT mean to seem to secondguess your attorney's advice, particularly to the extent that your attorney is experienced and well familiar with local practice, but you should ALWAYS generally AVOID failing to timely answer a suit!  In many jurisdictions, if you fail to timely respond, a default judgment can be taken against you.  If your attorney is EXPERIENCED in mortgage foreclosure and consumer debt practice and KNOWS the plaintiff's attorneys and is well familiar with the Judge, this may be great advice.  But if the attorney has a different specialization or is UNFAMILIAR with the daily practice before this judge, the attorney may UNDERESTIMATE the treachery of the lawyers emplyed by foreclosure mills.

Also, bear in mind that informal advice given you BEFORE you tender a retainer to the attorney might NOT subject that attorney to any malpractice exposure.

Also, IF the reason for the delay is for you to marshal the resources to pay the attorneys' retainer, then the attorney probably is NOT on the hook at all even if the judge REFUSES to allow a late defensive pleading.

Please do NOT misunderstand me.  I am NOT trying to undermine your confidence in your attorney.  I am GLAD you are represented.  But make certain that you are asking good questions and make sure you are NOT misunderstanding the implications of what you are being told!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
They have over appraised our house
Over stated my husbands income.
Where told the arm would adjust every 12 months, wrong, It's every 6 months. So it has adjusted twice now. Starting at @7%, now at 10.3%
Wrong SS#, birth dates on the loan application.


Be careful how you plead this!!  If they actually HAVE wrong SSN and DOB, it MIGHT make it EASIER for you to refinance out from under this oppressive loan.  Moose made a very nice post a couple of days ago about the UNDESIRABILITY of voluntarily furnishing ANY information to the foreclosing lender.  CHECK WITH YOUR ATTORNEY, BUT I WOULD TRY TO AT LEAST PLEAD THIS GENERALLY (e.g. "Mortgage orginator altered documents and made false representations..." with speficying precisely WHAT was altered IF permitted by pleading practice in your state).  ASK YOUR LAWYER!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Truth and lending statement shows 24 months @ 1042.07, 335 @ 1242.51 and 1 @ 1227.21 not including taxes and insurance which we have escrow-ed.


TIL statements regarding ARMs have always been problematic.  This disclosure would SEEM to suggest that payments were first disclosed at an initial discounted interest rate and then subsequent disclosed at the "fully margined rate" (Initial Index value PLUS margin, with respect to any periodic Rate CAPS).  If this is NOTthe case you may have a TIL disclosure issue.  The fact that a floating rate loan had an interest rate and payment that WENT UP (if properly disclosed) is probably NOT helpful to you.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Wrong legal description on deed- You can clearly tell someone used whiteout on the part of the legal description that was supposed to be on the deed.
The deed also has the wrong county on it, but was filed in the right county?


The VALIDITY of the deed is generally based upon the ADEQUACY of the legal description and other niceties as set forth in your jurisdiction's statute of frauds.  RECORDING is usually NOT necessary in order to make a deed VALID, but rather only to perfect the grantee's interest by making the grant public and putting the public on NOTICE of the grant.  Accordingly, even an erroneous recording would NOT tend to VOID an instrument, but might make affect the rights of the grantee with respect to another innocent grantee for value without notice of the prior grant.  Recording statutes differ throughout the country.  There are three basic types:  race, notice and race-notice.  A further discussion is probably UNNECESSARY to your situation.

In SOME jurisdictions ALTERATION of an instrument after execution can VOID the instrument.

But since you are talking about possible defects as to the DEED rather than the mortgage or deed of trust, I am UNSURE what your point is or where you think you are going with this.  Surely you are NOT looking to VOID the deed granting you the subject property.  Perhaps the whiteout is indicative of some dishonesty and give reason to SUSPECT the honesty of other documents.  MIGHT be an equitable "clean hands" argument, but it looks like a very THIN argument to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
The title company used is no longer in business.


In many jurisdictions, small title companies exist to RESELL at the consumer level wholesale title policies of major national title insurers.  These small title companies do the title search and sometimes an attorney associated with such a title company prepares an attorney's opinion of title.  On the strength of this title search and opinion of title, the larger national insurer issues a title insurance policy.  Title practice varies WIDELY across the country.  ASK SOMEONE IN YOUR JURISDICTION ABOUT LOCAL PRACTICE.  Call your state's insurance and/or banking commissioner.  Title insurers tend to be highly regulated.

It is NOT unusual in many jurisdictions for a title insurer to be closely allied or co-owned by the SAME owners of a small mortgage insurance concern.  Despite contrary reactions of others, I fail to see anything inherently CONFLICTING as to co-ownership.  I don't think there is anything sufficiently sinister there to get you much relief.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Funny thing - I have recently found out that the same person used to do the appraisal not only did the appraisal, but owned the title company as well!



This is a bit more UNUSUAL.  Frankly, it is the MORTGAGE INVESTOR that OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED about this!  But bear in mind that in MOST STATES, even when you PAY FOR THE APPRAISAL it is done on behalf of and FOR the lender.  A good lawyer has an interesting theory of some privity of contract when you are PAYING for the appraisal, but when you check your application paperwork, I think that you are going to find that you WAIVED any right to the appraisal.

When I was in the mortgage business, we INCLUDED this boilerplate waiver language in our application aggreement.  But we ROUTINELY furnish a complete copy of the appraisal to our customers as a courtesy and accomodation.  That was UNUSUAL at that time.  Most lenders then wouldn't let the customer have the appraisal, except in states that required it.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
They attorney used to file the deed has been suspended for a year from practicing in Ohio and New York, for foreclosure fraud.



In contrast to some of the other matters discussed above, this DOES seem to me to be a VERY BIG DEAL, particularly if you are making some equitable "clean hands" arguments.  I think it would be worth your while to investigate and get as many SPECIFICS as possible.  This also might be a productive area for DISCOVERY.  Hopefully, your lawyer is already tuned up on this!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
We have asked for the lenders name ( verbally) and have received 3 different names. In hopes we could contact them for a loan Mod. Therefore leading us to believe they do not know who has our note! There have been no assigns at the court house, it is still shows Argent has our note! I know that our attorney will ask for this information in discovery. We just want this to be over! We really don't want it to go that far.


The servicer and the foreclosing attorney is quite UNLIKELY to identify the investor EXCEPT in DISCOVERY and then only when ORDERED TO DO SO by the Judge! 

Quote:
Originally posted by srsd
Help,    I noticed you said that you VERBALLY got 3 different answers about the lender....DO NOT talk to anyone at this point......get everything in writing.  You need to start with getting your papers organized.  Start making a list of questions. Start writing down anything that you suspect is wrong. Write the company a QWR letter.


While this is generally GOOD advice, NOT SO once you have retained an attorney.  You should NOT be communicating in any way EXCEPT either through or with the knowledge and approval of your attorney.  TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THAT INCLUDES INFORMATIONAL POSTS TO THIS MESSAGE BOARD!

Quote:
Originally posted by srsd
Get a copy of your mortgage that is on file at the court house.


GOOD ADVICE!  Assemble materials and evidence to ASSIST and SUPPORT your attorney.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Question?
 Is the mortgage on file at the court house different than the one they sent with the summons?


These SHOULD BE and probably ARE the same.  But taking a look at the record copy also makes sense.  Get a copy of the recorded DEED, too.  And LOOK FOR any ASSIGNMENTS of the mortgage. 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dee
Part of the money you gave for the down payment is for title insurance.


In most states, there is a Lenders' Title Policy for the mortgage amount ONLY and written in favor of the LENDER.  Owners may also ELECTIVELY purchase a BUYER's TITLE POLICY more generally protecting the buyers' equity in the property.

*

I am really UNCLEAR where you are going with all of the discussion as to the deed and the title.  UNLESS someone is QUESTIONING YOUR TITLE, it seems to me that the focus on the title and title insurer is just a distraction from the central issues in the case!

* * *

One thing that I cannot emphasize enough is that if you are UNABLE TO MAKE YOUR PAYMENTS, then you are going to have more than a little difficulty succeeding in foreclosure litigation! 

If there is ANY SILVER LINING FOR YOU HERE, it may be the PROPENSITY and INCLINATION of mortgage investors and servicers to engage in stonewalling, discovery abuse and even DOCUMENT FABRICATION!  Despite the Boyko Ruling, I have yet seen VERY LITTLE INDICATION that defense attorneys, even in Ohio are actually ON TO what is being done!

If you drop me an e-mail or better yet have your ATTORNEY CONTACT ME, I would be happy to identify FORGED and FABRICATED documents in YOUR CASE.  In some instances, I can spot these now almost INSTANTLY.  Moreover, I can usually PROVE fabrication of certain kinds of critical records! 
Quote 0 0
Ohio
Help--
Check email response
Quote 0 0

William A. Roper, Jr. wrote:
Quote:
Originally posted by help
When foreclosure was first started we were summoned, 4 days later we received a revised summons adding the previous owners to the summons, stating they need to reform the deed.


Quote:
Originally posted by help
At this point we do have an attorney, she has requested extra 28 days to respond to the summons.



I do NOT mean to seem to secondguess your attorney's advice, particularly to the extent that your attorney is experienced and well familiar with local practice, but you should ALWAYS generally AVOID failing to timely answer a suit!  In many jurisdictions, if you fail to timely respond, a default judgment can be taken against you.  If your attorney is EXPERIENCED in mortgage foreclosure and consumer debt practice and KNOWS the plaintiff's attorneys and is well familiar with the Judge, this may be great advice.  But if the attorney has a different specialization or is UNFAMILIAR with the daily practice before this judge, the attorney may UNDERESTIMATE the treachery of the lawyers emplyed by foreclosure mills.

Also, bear in mind that informal advice given you BEFORE you tender a retainer to the attorney might NOT subject that attorney to any malpractice exposure.

Also, IF the reason for the delay is for you to marshal the resources to pay the attorneys' retainer, then the attorney probably is NOT on the hook at all even if the judge REFUSES to allow a late defensive pleading.

Our attorney file a Leave to plead due to the fact that we had just retained her. The motion of leave to plead was granted by the judge.

Please do NOT misunderstand me.  I am NOT trying to undermine your confidence in your attorney.  I am GLAD you are represented.  But make certain that you are asking good questions and make sure you are NOT misunderstanding the implications of what you are being told!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
They have over appraised our house
Over stated my husbands income.
Where told the arm would adjust every 12 months, wrong, It's every 6 months. So it has adjusted twice now. Starting at @7%, now at 10.3%
Wrong SS#, birth dates on the loan application.


Be careful how you plead this!!  If they actually HAVE wrong SSN and DOB, it MIGHT make it EASIER for you to refinance out from under this oppressive loan.  Moose made a very nice post a couple of days ago about the UNDESIRABILITY of voluntarily furnishing ANY information to the foreclosing lender.  CHECK WITH YOUR ATTORNEY, BUT I WOULD TRY TO AT LEAST PLEAD THIS GENERALLY (e.g. "Mortgage orginator altered documents and made false representations..." with speficying precisely WHAT was altered IF permitted by pleading practice in your state).  ASK YOUR LAWYER!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Truth and lending statement shows 24 months @ 1042.07, 335 @ 1242.51 and 1 @ 1227.21 not including taxes and insurance which we have escrow-ed.


TIL statements regarding ARMs have always been problematic.  This disclosure would SEEM to suggest that payments were first disclosed at an initial discounted interest rate and then subsequent disclosed at the "fully margined rate" (Initial Index value PLUS margin, with respect to any periodic Rate CAPS).  If this is NOTthe case you may have a TIL disclosure issue.  The fact that a floating rate loan had an interest rate and payment that WENT UP (if properly disclosed) is probably NOT helpful to you.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Wrong legal description on deed- You can clearly tell someone used whiteout on the part of the legal description that was supposed to be on the deed.
The deed also has the wrong county on it, but was filed in the right county?


The VALIDITY of the deed is generally based upon the ADEQUACY of the legal description and other niceties as set forth in your jurisdiction's statute of frauds.  RECORDING is usually NOT necessary in order to make a deed VALID, but rather only to perfect the grantee's interest by making the grant public and putting the public on NOTICE of the grant.  Accordingly, even an erroneous recording would NOT tend to VOID an instrument, but might make affect the rights of the grantee with respect to another innocent grantee for value without notice of the prior grant.  Recording statutes differ throughout the country.  There are three basic types:  race, notice and race-notice.  A further discussion is probably UNNECESSARY to your situation.

In SOME jurisdictions ALTERATION of an instrument after execution can VOID the instrument.

But since you are talking about possible defects as to the DEED rather than the mortgage or deed of trust, I am UNSURE what your point is or where you think you are going with this.  Surely you are NOT looking to VOID the deed granting you the subject property.  Perhaps the whiteout is indicative of some dishonesty and give reason to SUSPECT the honesty of other documents.  MIGHT be an equitable "clean hands" argument, but it looks like a very THIN argument to me.
I am not an attorney, these are just things that I have found in our paper work. The defects with the legal description are in the actual Mortgage and on the deed. The problem with this is that the deed never fully transferred to us.
Even if we wanted to "get out of our house, we cannot. The summons stated that they want to reform the deed make it correct so that they can foreclose on us?
Again I am not an attorney, this may or may not mean anything.
Our attorney specializes in foreclosure.
Quote:
Originally posted by help
The title company used is no longer in business.


In many jurisdictions, small title companies exist to RESELL at the consumer level wholesale title policies of major national title insurers.  These small title companies do the title search and sometimes an attorney associated with such a title company prepares an attorney's opinion of title.  On the strength of this title search and opinion of title, the larger national insurer issues a title insurance policy.  Title practice varies WIDELY across the country.  ASK SOMEONE IN YOUR JURISDICTION ABOUT LOCAL PRACTICE.  Call your state's insurance and/or banking commissioner.  Title insurers tend to be highly regulated.

It is NOT unusual in many jurisdictions for a title insurer to be closely allied or co-owned by the SAME owners of a small mortgage insurance concern.  Despite contrary reactions of others, I fail to see anything inherently CONFLICTING as to co-ownership.  I don't think there is anything sufficiently sinister there to get you much relief.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Funny thing - I have recently found out that the same person used to do the appraisal not only did the appraisal, but owned the title company as well!



This is a bit more UNUSUAL.  Frankly, it is the MORTGAGE INVESTOR that OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED about this!  But bear in mind that in MOST STATES, even when you PAY FOR THE APPRAISAL it is done on behalf of and FOR the lender.  A good lawyer has an interesting theory of some privity of contract when you are PAYING for the appraisal, but when you check your application paperwork, I think that you are going to find that you WAIVED any right to the appraisal.

When I was in the mortgage business, we INCLUDED this boilerplate waiver language in our application aggreement.  But we ROUTINELY furnish a complete copy of the appraisal to our customers as a courtesy and accomodation.  That was UNUSUAL at that time.  Most lenders then wouldn't let the customer have the appraisal, except in states that required it.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
They attorney used to file the deed has been suspended for a year from practicing in Ohio and New York, for foreclosure fraud.



In contrast to some of the other matters discussed above, this DOES seem to me to be a VERY BIG DEAL, particularly if you are making some equitable "clean hands" arguments.  I think it would be worth your while to investigate and get as many SPECIFICS as possible.  This also might be a productive area for DISCOVERY.  Hopefully, your lawyer is already tuned up on this!

Quote:
Originally posted by help
We have asked for the lenders name ( verbally) and have received 3 different names. In hopes we could contact them for a loan Mod. Therefore leading us to believe they do not know who has our note! There have been no assigns at the court house, it is still shows Argent has our note! I know that our attorney will ask for this information in discovery. We just want this to be over! We really don't want it to go that far.


The servicer and the foreclosing attorney is quite UNLIKELY to identify the investor EXCEPT in DISCOVERY and then only when ORDERED TO DO SO by the Judge! 

Quote:
Originally posted by srsd
Help,    I noticed you said that you VERBALLY got 3 different answers about the lender....DO NOT talk to anyone at this point......get everything in writing.  You need to start with getting your papers organized.  Start making a list of questions. Start writing down anything that you suspect is wrong. Write the company a QWR letter.


While this is generally GOOD advice, NOT SO once you have retained an attorney.  You should NOT be communicating in any way EXCEPT either through or with the knowledge and approval of your attorney.  TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THAT INCLUDES INFORMATIONAL POSTS TO THIS MESSAGE BOARD!
I only had contact with them prior to retaing our attorney. Not since then.
Quote:
Originally posted by srsd
Get a copy of your mortgage that is on file at the court house.


GOOD ADVICE!  Assemble materials and evidence to ASSIST and SUPPORT your attorney.

Quote:
Originally posted by help
Question?
 Is the mortgage on file at the court house different than the one they sent with the summons?


These SHOULD BE and probably ARE the same.  But taking a look at the record copy also makes sense.  Get a copy of the recorded DEED, too.  And LOOK FOR any ASSIGNMENTS of the mortgage. 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dee
Part of the money you gave for the down payment is for title insurance.


In most states, there is a Lenders' Title Policy for the mortgage amount ONLY and written in favor of the LENDER.  Owners may also ELECTIVELY purchase a BUYER's TITLE POLICY more generally protecting the buyers' equity in the property.

*

I am really UNCLEAR where you are going with all of the discussion as to the deed and the title.  UNLESS someone is QUESTIONING YOUR TITLE, it seems to me that the focus on the title and title insurer is just a distraction from the central issues in the case!

* * *

One thing that I cannot emphasize enough is that if you are UNABLE TO MAKE YOUR PAYMENTS, then you are going to have more than a little difficulty succeeding in foreclosure litigation! 
We do have all our payments in our own escrow. We have offered them all back payments, we just could not come up with the attorney fees they have added on. The forbearance plan they had offered us for the attorney fees was something we knew we could not afford. We did not accept this knowing we would just end up in the same boat again.
If there is ANY SILVER LINING FOR YOU HERE, it may be the PROPENSITY and INCLINATION of mortgage investors and servicers to engage in stonewalling, discovery abuse and even DOCUMENT FABRICATION!  Despite the Boyko Ruling, I have yet seen VERY LITTLE INDICATION that defense attorneys, even in Ohio are actually ON TO what is being done!

If you drop me an e-mail or better yet have your ATTORNEY CONTACT ME, I would be happy to identify FORGED and FABRICATED documents in YOUR CASE.  In some instances, I can spot these now almost INSTANTLY.  Moreover, I can usually PROVE fabrication of certain kinds of critical records! 

Quote 0 0

Posted by: WAR
But since you are talking about possible defects as to the DEED rather than the mortgage or deed of trust, I am UNSURE what your point is or where you think you are going with this.  Surely you are NOT looking to VOID the deed granting you the subject property.  Perhaps the whiteout is indicative of some dishonesty and give reason to SUSPECT the honesty of other documents.  MIGHT be an equitable "clean hands" argument, but it looks like a very THIN argument to me.


Really, we are not rying to get out of anything, until foreclosure was started we had no idea about any mortgage fraud. After finding a few initial things in our loan docs it made me begin researching things. To me it just didn't seem right that they needed to reform our mortgage deed due to an unclear title?
 
Again, I am not an attorney so I may not be stating things in "legal words"
After researching things, finding out that EVERYONE involved with our mortgage is know for FRAUD. I further looked at our docs. Theses may or may not mean anything that is why I post information here, to help me understand what is right and what is wrong.
We created this debt and intend to pay for it, we just got into financial trouble an our trying to recover. Given that with our ARM which continues to rise,it has made it harder to due that. We have been working with all the right people, HUD, Credit counselors etc... They have all stated we need a loan modification. Lock our rate. I just get so upset that these companies would rather take your house than to work with you and continue to pay them!!!!
Again Thank You for all you information.
Help
 
Quote 0 0

Also, unfortunately we were never given copies of papers signed, they were all blank copies. No appraisal.

Quote 0 0
Ohio
Quote:
It is NOT unusual in many jurisdictions for a title insurer to be closely allied or co-owned by the SAME owners of a small mortgage insurance concern.  Despite contrary reactions of others, I fail to see anything inherently CONFLICTING as to co-ownership.  I don't think there is anything sufficiently sinister there to get you much relief.


Maybe you don't but proper disclosure is required nonetheless....

Disclosures Before Settlement (Closing) Occurs
 (a) Disclosure of Controlled/Affiliated Business Arrangements Whenever a settlement service provider involved in a RESPA-covered transaction refers the borrower to a provider with whom the referring party has an ownership or other beneficial interest, a Controlled Business Arrangement (CBA) Disclosure is required. 12 U.S.C. § 2607(c)(4).
The referring party must give the CBA Disclosure to the borrower at or prior to the time of referral. The Disclosure must describe the business arrangement that exists between the two providers and give the borrower an estimate of the second provider's charges.


Quote 0 0
Quote:
Originally posted by Ohio
Disclosures Before Settlement (Closing) Occurs
(a) Disclosure of Controlled/Affiliated Business Arrangements Whenever a settlement service provider involved in a RESPA-covered transaction refers the borrower to a provider with whom the referring party has an ownership or other beneficial interest, a Controlled Business Arrangement (CBA) Disclosure is required. 12 U.S.C. § 2607(c)(4).


Good catch, Ohio!!  I haven't had to review the RESPA statute in more than a decade.

I am still a little UNCLEAR on the implications of the disclosure failure as to remedy, etc.  Belated rescission??  Doesn't help a lot if the borrower doesn't have the funds to repay IN FULL, though rescission could possibly make ALL of the b.s. fees and charges, icnluding assessed attorneys' fees go away!

In a judicial foreclosure situation, this might be an element of an "unclean hands" equitable defense.  But it seems to me to be sufficiently potent in and of itself to BLOCK the equitable remedy of foreclosure.

* * *

Quote:
Originally posted by Help
Also, unfortunately we were never given copies of papers signed, they were all blank copies. No appraisal.


In most states you are NOT entitled to a copy of the appraisal, but you are going to want to obtain a copy through DISCOVERY. 

The Lender IS required to give you copies of certain other documents pursuant to TIL and RESPA.  However, these documents themselves usually have WITHIN the boilerplate a paragraph in which the Borrower ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT OF THESE DISCLOSURES. 

This is going to put you in a very awkward position.  FIRST, the Lender will ALLEGE that you DID receive the disclosures and will SHOW IN COURT THEIR SIGNED COPY of the disclosure SHOWING THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT.  Second, in Discovery, the Lender/Investor will ALLEGE that they need NOT produce copies of documents which you presumably ALREADY HAVE.   
Quote 0 0
Ohio
William A. Roper, Jr. wrote:

Good catch, Ohio!!  I haven't had to review the RESPA statute in more than a decade.

I am still a little UNCLEAR on the implications of the disclosure failure as to remedy, etc.  Belated rescission?? 


I think when the HUD-1 is picked apart and each fee scrutinized in connection with these affiliated companies.....there just might lie a TILA violation or two regarding those fees and how the finance charges were calculated/disclosed. Find one error regardless of how minute and the right of rescission exists.

William A. Roper, Jr. wrote:
Doesn't help a lot if the borrower doesn't have the funds to repay IN FULL,


Maybe not but what it DOES give the borrower is some serious leverage. The kind of leverage to bring them to the bargaining table.

Quote:
though rescission could possibly make ALL of the b.s. fees and charges, icnluding assessed attorneys' fees go away!


and a decent fixed rate loan mod to boot.

Quote 0 0
Joe B
O and War-

     Good info, and I don't have much value to add with the exception of one point. If people have been in their home a while, and they are able to exercise the right of rescission all previous payments go straight to principal. So, this could be a big deal, and the amount needed to complete they payments, might not add up to much more than a nice car payment (OK, a VERY nice car payment). However, the idea of only needing $50 or $60K to payoff a $250K loan might garner them some favorable rates from a local bank or credit union. After all 25-30% LTV is hardly a significant risk!

     The idea of a rescission, as most folks know, is that it must put all parties into the position they were prior to the deal being consummated. So, the servicer (or trust) returns the payments, and the borrower returns the property. Or because they have been paying for 9 or 10 years, these payments now being put straight to principal could represent a pretty big deal, and only require a relatively modest amount to pay-off the entire balance.

     There might be some folks that are able to pull this off with the right conditions, and the right timing.

     I just wanted to point this out just in case...

JB
Quote 0 0
Ohio
TILA

In addition to actual damages, and other statutory damages, for non-purchase money home–secured loans, TILA gives a right to rescind the transaction for up to three (3) years in some cases, for “material” violations.  Rescission voids the security interest in the home and eliminates the obligation to pay interest or other finances charges or closing costs.  In secured real estate loans, the impact of a successful TILA rescission can be quite dramatic, because rescission:

  • Voids the security agreement;
  • Can be complete defense to foreclosure;
  • Voids all finance charges and closing cost; and
  • Allows the court to award statutory damages of $2,000 to $4,000 in the case of a closed end, real estate secured loan, if the creditor fails to respond to a proper rescission notice.
  • A rescission action may apply if the loan is a TILA loan for a non-purchase money security interest in the consumer’s primary residence.  The right of rescission must be exercised within three business days from the latest of:
  • Consummation of the transaction;
  • Delivery of proper notice of right to rescind; or
  • Delivery of all material disclosures correctly made
  • Three days begin to run only when all material disclosures and proper notice of the right to rescind is received.  There is a continuing right to rescind for up to three (3) years from consummation if those notices are not done correctly.   Subject to limited potential arguments, generally all defenses related to TILA expire three years from the consummation of the transaction; provided however, the right to rescind may be shortened if the interest of the borrower in the property is voluntarily or involuntarily transferred (ie. sale or foreclosure). 
     
    The above information can be found at: http://www.ottoltd.com/faqs.htm
    Quote 0 0
    You guys are such a wealth of information!!!! Thank You.
    Rather than us trying to figure out all the legal stuff, we recently had a friend who is a mortgage broker look at all our loan docs. As we suspected, he has found numerous fraudulent things in them. Including, Appraisal fraud, TILA, and other things, Final HUD statement showed our loan was a cash-out refi- We never received any cash!!!  We had to pay them! While I'm not sure what all this could mean for us, we have shared with our attorney, and will continue to research any other avenue we can! As I said before, we have made this debt and want to pay for it, if nothing Else hopefully this will make Homeq and the others work with us!
    Thank you guys so much! Without this site I may have not looked at anything and just let them foreclose!
    Quote 0 0
    Ohio

    You are on the right path...Please keep us posted

    Quote 0 0
    Help
    O
    Please check your email......
    Quote 0 0
    I found this case concerning HomEq. Maybe it will help you

    http://www.geocities.com/richdebt/In_re_Shwartz_Memo_Decision.pdf

    Quote 0 0

    You guys/gals are the best!
     
    Ed, WAR, OHIO, JOE, ARKY,
     
    Now all the truth is coming to light for all of us. This last case in the chp 7 is basically what has happened to me. Except for originally in my case Homeq was to be servicing for Ameriquest initially. Then they filed the sucessor trustee showing that Wells Fargo is the owner of said note. Which was proven not to be so as well. Since, before June 2006 they've been unable who rightfully owns and still hasn't come forward.
     
    I've been reading various cases where they try to have compassion for the attorney's that a filing such erroneous things. Where they say maybe its an error in the attorneys behalf. But I don't see that being the case when they tried to foreclose that the sale was stopped because they didn't know then who owned note. So their two proof of claims filed to be paid are erroneous as well. So much so the judge did shut them down in my case as well.
     
    You would think with their formal education they'd know the law better than any of us have been forced to learn. Now what's been on my drawing board is how to structure a dispute letter with my 1st.
     
    Ohio you touched on the recission period. What if they intentionally wrote up my mortgage this way? (purchase money mortgage instead of a refi?)
     
    Has anyone come up with a good dispute letter to cover such things? As I've found out I've been shisted good...

    *Purchase money mortgage instead of Refi
    *YSP-When he made money on front as well
    *I paid for an appraisal but yet there was also another appraisal fee paid POC just like the YSP...

    There's so many things these are in violation of..
    All help as usual is greatly appreciated everyone!

    Kathy


     
     
     



     
     
     
     


    Quote 0 0
    Ok,
     
    More news....I did some digging...Anyone interested in writing a good complaint should check pacer on this file. It's the best I've seen yet. Finally someone knows how to practice LAW...
     
    I give two thumbs up for the attorney and judge in this one! If only I could find such an attorney or judge like this in St. Louis...Guess I'll be calling GHOSTBUSTERS in the morning to see if they can help me find someone....LOL
     
    God Bless,
     
    Kathy
    Quote 0 0
    Write a reply...