Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
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Hi Everyone.
We just spoke to an attorney. 

We received a letter in Aug from Loan Care stating that LoanCare Servicing Center would would NO longer be servicing our loan for Freedom Mortgage.  That CHASE would now be the servicer beginning Sept 1,2007. 

Several days later we received a letter from CHASE stating they would now be servicing our loan and accepting payments begininng Sept1, 2007.

We attempted numerous times to make payment to CHASE for Sept and OCt. "We were not in the system" "COuld take 60 days" etc.

In OCT Loan Care comes back to us demanding payment, threatening foreclosure etc because we wer enow in default. We explained.

THey are now foreclosing!!

Attorney feels the letters prove FRAUD.

WE need any case history, judgements, class action etc. that relates to this type of situation or these companies to give us a "GOOD" leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.

Please help in any way possible.
Lets comes together and put a stop to this.

Just ONE Voice is but a whisper....MANY Voices can be heard by the Nation.

Thanks so much and let me know if we can help you in anyway.
Julie

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Stephen

Here we go again!  You have plenty of company.  At this point there are a few legal things to do, but the reality of it is, as we have all learned, is that there is little defense.  The real estate industry can do anything it wants with impunity.  Tell the predator to back off or you'll walk.  Then write to the FTC and OTS.

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Moose
You're doing the right thing by getting an attorney involved early on.

What you're seeing is a violation of RESPA.  The only problem is the penalties for violation of the statute are minimal, although you can recover legal expenses.

A demand letter from a law firm will usually get their attention over and above something from a borrower.  But don't let your attorney get too patient. If they have sent it to a foreclosure firm, chances are they won't back off without a restraining order hanging over their heads.

You need to also report it to the FTC and HUD.  You can do the FTC filing online and there are local HUD counselor lines you can find on the HUD web site.

Moose



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stephen

OBTW, avoid judges at all costs.  I went to court with all the proof one could have and the judge never even looked at it.  If you go to court, ask the judge if he's a homeowner, and if so ask him to recuse himself.

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Julie,
 
Chase is notorious for taking forever to complete transactions. Check with county records and see if they've actually filed the assignment notification.
If they have then regardless they should have it in their systems.
 
I was unable to locate their legal dept number but their customer serv # is 800-548-7912...The person I spoke to was at the number 800-628-1674.
 
You may have better luck with the 2nd number. If they give you the run around ask if Charlotte still works there. I say this because the person I spoke to should of had their legal dept number but think she was intentionally saying she couldn't find it.
 
Depending on the outcome that you find with recorders office should really tell you who you should attempt to believe I would think. And as bad as all the mortgage companies are I will give Chase a hands up if you can get to the legal dept if the other number besides customer service can't help you.

Even though the RESPA violations are minimal you may have a chance of Fair Credit Reporting Act or the FDCPA as well depending on how their exposing things on your credit. Then maybe a case against the FORECLOSURE MILL LAW FIRM. These law firms are starting to kill me. They talk the jibberish but probably have nothing to back up what their telling you. Most of their websites will tell you how they can be competent and run title searches prior to a foreclosure sale how they have all documents in hand for 4/clsre sale and actually end up not having valid proof of such..
 
Best of luck!
 
Kathy


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Julie:

Have your attorney contact me directly immediately!  I am delighted to hear that you have found a lawyer!!


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Your story is the same as thousands of others, what ever documents you like regarding "manufactured For-closure" by Litton Loan, have your lawyer contact me, there are many on this site that have been posted in various locations.  I'm guessing you have a high equity to loan ratio.
 
Gary
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Thanks to all of you for your advice and support.

If you wish for me or our attorney to contact you please email me with the appropriate contact information.

Any "free"  advice on how to research cases or discovery issues would be a huge help.  Attorney asked me to continue researching both companies and case history to help cut down expense.

I truly thought that since our  second son's accident in 2000 that our seven years of bad luck were almost complete....cant figure out what mirror I broke to deserve this one.
 
Our  eldest son is in the USAF/EOD (Bomb Squad) Div. served in Iraq returned home in FEB. Is now headed to Afghanistan in Jan.  He protects Us from Terrorism... as his family home is being stolen by this  orm of terrorism that is rapant in our country ....the irony overwhelms me.

It just makes me ill to think all we worked for the past 20 years could be stolen right out from under us.
Was real hard decorating for Christmas knowing it could be our last in our home.....

Julie

"Be the light you wish to see in the world!"


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Julie I can totally relate! About decorating for Christmas, I mean.  I've only put up my tree, for my kids, and nothing else is up yet.  I usually go all out with garlands and lights, candles, the whole deal.  I just can't bring myself to do it this year. 

Also, about your son being in the military, I can see the irony here, too.  This entire thing really has me questioning what it means to be American.  We've been told the threat was "out there" when for so many of us it's turning out to be our own neighbors that are bringing us down.  What does this say about the fate of the American Dream?  Why, in a country that used to be known for it's "together we stand" and "this land is your land, this land is my land" are we suddenly faced with "every man for himself!"?

I've read commentaries about the mortgage meltdown where the author's position was actually "throw 'em out on the street - it's the market correcting itself!"  And I think "whoa! Is this really ok with us as a society?  Just let people suffer, for whatever reason they are, as long as THE MARKET corrects itself?"  Does THE MARKET have more worth than a human's well being?  Than MANY human's well being?  How about faith in the THE MARKET over faith in EACH OTHER?

Keep being a light, Julia, and anyone else reading this, and I promise to keep doing the same.
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~beenawhile

April wrote:
Julie I can totally relate! About decorating for Christmas, I mean.  I've only put up my tree, for my kids, and nothing else is up yet.  I usually go all out with garlands and lights, candles, the whole deal.  I just can't bring myself to do it this year. 

There stands our tree so pretty
But not for me
I have this depression from our financial regression

We've taken a blow because they say we owe owe owe
on that stupid forsaken ESCROW, ESCROW

No sparkle of lights
in the air tongiht

See, this year it's really hard to care
Our love for our child's, all we have to share.

I can't help but wonder, if they think they have WON. (servicers)
Oh how I am now so very glum

Our tree by the window, with no lights or cheer
How can I be happy when I want to tear?

i tell my self, please tell me.......
there's more to Christmas, more than we see

Then i know, it's the birth of the pure
and his love we endure

Our family is blessed      evn'
with our finances regressed

those others will have no love
beaming from within the their chests

their hearts are of fire
for all their desire

my thoughts not pure
for their suffer i'm sure

I hope they suffer, suffer so
from all their theivery, of financial buffer
I hope their hearts are filled with black snow

they've brought to our life havoc
where peace used to grow

I make mistakes, im human i know
but still all i want is for them to suffer so

no its not pure to wish
them pain to endure

Perfect I'm not
 but I'll stop with this thought

My thoughts from peace scower
until the love brings shower
of warmth and delight

I try to live right,
and keep peace in sight

I'll embrace the light and decorate------ ----- my tree ---------
       
         ----------------------------------tonight


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SORRY I have know idea where my post went????

No wonder the government doesn't want to help....

Hand in the cookie jar, maybe????????

http://www.123jump.com/10K_Reports/LFG/2007/2007.htm

Our subservicing business provides loan subservicing services through our subsidiary, LoanCare Servicing Center, Inc. (“LoanCare”).

Subservicing – LoanCare is an approved servicer for the Federal National Mortgage Association, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, the Government National Mortgage Association, the Federal Housing Administration, the Veterans Administration, several nationwide financial institutions, and a number of private investors. Our loan subservicing services are offered through interim and private label subservicing programs. Interim subservicing is utilized by lenders selling loans in the secondary market pending the transfer of the loans and the related servicing rights to a permanent purchaser/investor. The private label subservicing program is utilized by lenders wishing to promote the relationship between themselves and their borrowers.

 

Julie


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I will try again....

 

 

Our subservicing business provides loan subservicing services through our subsidiary, LoanCare Servicing Center, Inc. (“LoanCare”).

Subservicing – LoanCare is an approved servicer for the Federal National Mortgage Association, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, the Government National Mortgage Association, the Federal Housing Administration, the Veterans Administration, several nationwide financial institutions, and a number of private investors. Our loan subservicing services are offered through interim and private label subservicing programs. Interim subservicing is utilized by lenders selling loans in the secondary market pending the transfer of the loans and the related servicing rights to a permanent purchaser/investor. The private label subservicing program is utilized by lenders wishing to promote the relationship between themselves and their borrowers

 

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Julie:

I am BAFFLED as to what it is that you are seeking to either relate or to ask by your posts of 9:33 PM and 9:35 PM.

What is your POINT?  What is your QUESTION?  I would like to help, but I don't understand.
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Bill

Sorry for some reason whatever I try posting shows up as I am typing the thread but not when I hit submit.  Placing the "link" or when I "Cut and Paste" neither way is working.  Might be the computer... or me with the exhaustion I am feeling  

Julie




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Ed Cage

Julie wrote:

“THey are now foreclosing!!   Attorney feels the letters prove FRAUD.
WE need any case history, judgements, class action etc. that relates to this type of situation or these companies to give us a "GOOD" leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.”
  

Dear Julie:
I don’t want to sound like the Christmas Grinch but your post doesn’t sound right. Let me be more specific: Any attorney who tells his mortgage fraud client that “The letters prove fraud” will bear watching.. “Fraud” by the lender?  Chase? The servicer?

Red Flag #1
The legal definition of fraud in layman’s terms is an intentional effort or scheme to deceive or trick another by intentional vague descriptions and/or intentional suppression of important facts.  

      Intentional is the key word and it is extremely difficult to “prove.”  In fairness that’s why your search for the all important *patterns* does make some sense.

Red Flag #2
I am concerned that your attorney is relying on you to round up some “examples.” Paraphrasing your description: “case history, judgments, class action etc. that relates to this type of situation or these companies to give us a "GOOD" leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.” 

      This is essentially your lawyer’s job although it is not uncommon for an attorney to ask if you have other examples…  It does concern me that he would ask you to solicit these examples to give you and him “a GOOD leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.”   Again that’s primarily the attorney’s job.

On the brighter side I think I saw a post from William Roper asking you to have your attorney to call him immediately..  Bill Roper gives the finest mortgage advice I have seen coming from a layman.  Have your attorney call him; or you can contact me at 972-596-4363 or ecagetx@tx.rr.com

Another point on the brighter side is that my 26 years with Chase as our lender and the servicer at the same time were *seamless*  If your beef is with Chase your chances have just improved at least from my 26 year perspective.. I think I read Chase became your servicer in September.. That gives you a better chance in my view.. If it were with one of these many dubious servicers mentioned in MSF, all bets are off. Although I did communicate with a person in MSF last night who was having trouble with Chase, I still feel you are in much better shape than most in here.

A final point on the brighter side that you and your husband should be very proud of what your eldest son is doing in the USAF in service of you and me and our country. I will and have prayed for him under the name of “Julie’s AF son.”

Warm personal regards,
Ed Cage
1804 Cross Bend, Plano Texas 75023



 
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Ed Cage
Julie wrote:
“THey are now foreclosing!!   Attorney feels the letters prove FRAUD.
WE need any case history, judgements, class action etc. that relates to

this type of situation or these companies to give us a "GOOD" leg to
stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.”

Dear Julie:
I don’t want to sound like the Christmas Grinch but your post doesn’t
sound right. Let me be more specific: Any attorney who tells his
mortgage fraud client that “The letters prove fraud” will bear watching..
“Fraud” by the lender?  Chase? The servicer?

Red Flag #1
The legal definition of fraud in layman’s terms is an intentional effort or
scheme to deceive or trick another by intentional vague descriptions
and/or intentional suppression of important facts.  Intentional is the key
word and it is extremely difficult to “prove.”  In fairness that’s why your
search for the all important *patterns* does make some sense.

Red Flag #2
I am concerned that your attorney is relying on you to round up some
“examples.” Paraphrasing your description: “case history, judgments,
class action etc. that relates to this type of situation or these companies
to give us a "GOOD" leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.” 
      This is essentially your lawyer’s job although it is not uncommon for
an attorney to ask if you have other examples…  It does concern me that
he would ask you to solicit these examples to give you and him “a GOOD
leg to stand on in taking this to court for FRAUD.”   Again that’s the
attorney’s job.

On the brighter side I think I saw a post from William Roper asking you
to have your attorney to call him immediately..  Bill Roper gives the finest
mortgage advice I have seen coming from a layman.  Have your attorney
call him; or you can contact me at 972-596-4363 or ecagetx@tx.rr.com

Another point on the brighter side is that my 26 years with Chase as
our lender and the servicer at the same time were *seamless*  If your beef
is with Chase your chances have just improved at least from my 26 year
perspective.. I think I read Chase became your servicer in September.. That
gives you a better chance in my view.. If it were with one of these many
dubious servicers mentioned in MSF, all bets are off. Although I did
communicate with a person in MSF last night who was having trouble with
Chase, I still feel you are in much better shape than most in here.

A final point on the brighter side that you and your husband should be
very proud of what your eldest son is doing in the USAF in service of you and
me and our country. I will pray for him under the name of “Julie’s AF son.”

Warm personal regards,
Ed Cage
1804 Cross Bend, Plano Texas 75023
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O -
Ed, is new to the forum, we/I don't know much about him. So be careful what evidence or info you might give someone. I don't trust him. But that's just my 2 cents.
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O -

Looks like you have a nice place Ed. Why don't you tell US a LITTLE more about yerself Mr Ed?

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Julie, quick Q - is this YOUR home that is under foreclosure or your active duty military SON's home?

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Joe B
Mike-

     When Julie first came to the board with her problem, I was curious about the same thing. I read and re-read her post, and it looks like it is Julie's house, the house that her son grew up in, not her son's current home. Nor does it appear that he is on the title of the house. It is Mom (and Dad's?) house. Even if he is still living in this house, he must be the owner, which it appears that he is not.

     For everyone else, the reason this is important is that the military folks have some help and significant protection with the soldiers and sailors relief act. I won't go into all the protection it provides, but it is significant. These benefits do not translate to parents and children, etc.

     So Mike, it looks like Julie is in this without the benefit of this act. Julie, if I have misread your posts, let me know, and we can walk you through how to help yourself here. Your son must be the owner of the house; if he is, get back to us ASAP!

JB
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You're quick, JB. I knew someone would pick up on the SSRA implication... That's why I wanted Julie's clarification.

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~beenawhile
Posting this info here just in case someone does a search for military help.

Here are some helpful links for those who are in the military.
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/nsc/qasscra1.cfm


http://legalassistance.law.af.mil/content/locator.php


aside from that I had a question Julie.
If your son is NOT the owner of the home.

How about an assumable loan?

Does your Loan documentation allow for an assumable loan?
If so, I'm sure this is something that could be done rather quickly via fax, or Overnight mail.

this might be an option to quickly look into,
If you COULD let your son assume the loan, he might be able to get LEGAL help for you immediately.

As, always not legal advice, just offering ideas.

Good luck let us know!
God Bless.
~beenawhile
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Joe B
BAW-

     Careful here. I know you probably didn't realize this, but what you just described would be considered a fraudulent conveyance. In other words, this property is in f/c and the only reason it was transferred is to use the military benefits of her son. Not only is this off the charts ethically, it would have serious ramifications both for Julie, and bring a swift end to her son's military career. It could also allow him to spend some additional time in the military at one of the more uncomfortable assignments, called the brig!

     Julie, I urge caution here. Please be sure to get excellent legal advice before you head down this path. You should also have your son check with his base's judge advocate before proceeding should you decide to do so.

JB
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~beenawhile
Joe,

Yes, you absolutely right. I absolutley forgot about Julie already being the F/C process.

Forgive, I had truly forgotten they had already started Foreclosure on her home.

My deepest apologies.
~beenawhile

Thank You Joe!
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Joe B
BAW-

     No sweat. I knew it was an oversight. I just wanted to ensure that Julie didn't do anything too quickly before we had a chance to correct it!

     That's why we all work together. You were gracious in reply. There are others who would not have been as kind; thanks for that!

JB
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~beenawhile
yqw.............. ='s you're quite welcome.
Being mean, rude, nasty, or ugly doesnt resolve anything.
However.......... we all have our breaking points.
and I have been pushed to mine a few times here recently, and lately.

Life isn't about being a jerk, though. And yeah I know what ya mean Joe.
I value your opinion on here as well as Most all others.
An excellent board with excellent advice.

Gosh Joe, again, again, & again.... Thank you for catching that.

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TO clarify:

IT is the home my son in the USAF grew up in.  It is in no way able to be protected by his service to our country.  I thought the irony of him fighting terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan in comparison to the terror by these companies on homeowners on American soil was extremely ironic.  WHo has our back?  I am EXTREMELY PROUD of him. His loyalty, commitment and desire for others to have freedom overwhelms me.  He is very BRAVE.

The "Letters" are when the problem occurred. 

LoanCare was our servicer, they sent the 1st letter stating service rights were now to be performed by CHASE.

Chase sent the 2nd letter stating they would now be the servicer.

We attempted to pay CHase for over 2 months.(Not in Sytem could take 60 days)

Then LOAN CARE comes back to us "where is your payment" and would not listen to us about the letters and transfer of servicing from LoanCare to Chase. LoanCare is the company that filed for fereclosure.

The lawyer only asked me to let him know if I find anything out.  He has a company that can do this work in seconds.  I think he was trying to let me feel like I was helping and had something to offer.  Thats all.

Thanks for your help

Julie


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Ed Cage

Thanks Julie.

Like I said you are much better off with Chase than these other charlatans;

believe me.  Tell them your friend Ed Cage in Plano Texas paid off a 30

year note with no problems and says,

 

"Chase is different than EMC and AMC.  I think you will get an honest fair

shake with Chase.. My loan officer was Judy Blanton in Dallas."

 

PERHAPS/maybe this might help.

 

Regards,

Ed Cage / ecagetx@tx.rr.com / 972-596-4363


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O -

CHASE SUCKS!

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~beenawhile
First I have a question for the MSF VETERANS:
If a borrwer has NOT been involved in a Bankruptcy of any sort when the filing of a FORECLOSURE has occured, does that borrower then have rights under FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT?

Would it then LEGALLY be defined as the "COLLECTION" of a DEBT?

IF SO THEN WOULDN'T THE BELOW APPLY TO JULIE & HER SPECIFIC PROBLEMS?

PLEASE HELP! & THANKS!


Julie,
In doing some research for my own home, I just came across this. I thought I would share it with you.
 
This is from the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act.
 
And I truly believe this may help you right now. 

MSF VETERANS,  If I am wrong please speak up!
 
If you had filed for a bankruptcy claim before the transaction of this foreclosure, you would also have the protection of the FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT.     AKA  FDCPA
 
These FDCPA acts, are to help those who have brutalized by the "COLLECTORS" of debt.
 
THIS COULD BE YOU.
Here is a law, & rule that could possibly help you. With an immediate halt.
(please pay attention to the bold font, the red font, and the purple font. The purple font is my explination of the understanding of that rule.)
 
Julie, there is one at the bottom of this post that you will especially want to pay particular attention too.

§ 809.  Validation of debts   [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;  (meaning: they must notify you in writing that you have 30 days starting from the moment you received the Foreclosure notice, to dispute the debt in writing. Julie, if it has not been 30 days yet. GET A LETTER TYPED UP ASAP. (BUT DO NOT MAIL IT YET AS WE HAVE SOME THINGS TO DISCUSS. I'll ask you some questions later, that we will need the answers for. In the mean time, get this letter typed while we wait for answers. In the event that this can possibly work for you. )YOU CAN USE THE QWR FORMAT IF YOU WISH, BUT MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE ALL QWR INSTANCES, AND REPLACE IT WITH "THIS IS NOW COMMUNICAITON UNDER THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT." & BE SURE TO INCLUDE WHY YOU ARE WRITING TO THEM. & THIS WOULD BE TO DISPUTE THE DEBT, SENT TO YOU ON,_________ AND RECEIVED BY YOU ON________. THE AMOUNT THEY SAID WAS OWED, AND THAT YOU DISPUTE SUCH AMOUNT.)

 

ALSO BE SURE TO WRITE A SEPERATE LETTER TO THEM UNDER THE FDCPA Informing them that they did not send this notice to you in the mail, stating that you have the right to dispute the debt, and that they "FAILED" to inform you, that you have these rights as a consumer under FDCPA REGULATIONS!(SEE THE RED BOLD FONT ABOVE for the REFERENCE) Did they send you a notice stating you had the right to dispute within 30 days? If they DID NOT, then SEND THIS LETTER OUT ASAP, INFORMING THEM OF THEIR FAILURE TO SEND NOTICE TO YOU, AND THAT THIS VIOLATES THE LAWS UNDER FDCPA, AND SPECIFY THE CODES LISTED BELOW.

 § 809.  Validation of debts   [15 USC 1692g]

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector; 

 

--------------END OF SECOND LETTER---------------

 

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

Same principal here, did they send a letter to you including something pertaining to this law? If not get the letter out informing them of their failure to follow the laws under FDCPA.

 

 

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

Same principal here, did they send a letter to you including something pertaining to this law? If not get the letter out informing them of their failure to follow the laws under FDCPA.



(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

 

 

you may read more of this info at the following link:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#805

 

 

Alright now in describing the last LAW above in (b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed,

 

Here is my thinking on this:

What date did you RECEIVE THE LETTER OF FORECLOSURE?

I am thinking that if you are having no luck of getting this Foreclosure dismissed. That you need to get the letter you "ALREADY" typed up, that disputes their "COLLECTION"  "claims" and sent out VIA OVERNIGHT EXPRESS MAIL TO THEIR BUSINESS ADDRESS for the CUSTOMER SERVICE DEPARTMENT OR THEIR QWR DEPARTMENT (even though this wouldnt be a QWR), AND LEGAL DEPARTMENT THE DAY BEFORE THE FORECLOSURE IS TO TAKE PLACE.

 

Total expense of sending two letters to them by OVERNIGHT US POSTAL SERVICE approx. $30.00 ~vs~ 20 years of equity..... PRICELESS.

 

I would be sure to check the overnight mail receipt to make sure that it was received in time, and if not I would get a copy of that letter SENT OUT FOR IMMEDIATE AIR MAIL DELIVERY.  FEDERAL EXPRESS has this service available. Though it will cost more. this too is PRICELESS when considering it could possibly save your home.

 

Why do I say this?

1.  If all has failed to that point to halt the FORECLOSURE, it would be     the LAST STiTCH EFFORT TO SAVE YOUR HOME OF 20 years.

 

 

2. IF you were to send this letter our now (provided the 30 days hasn't already expired) this gives them the time needed to get the response mailed back to you, before the date of the scheduled Foreclosure. and that .......... in this case would NOT be a good thing! The purpose of waiting until the last possible day to mail this letter would to be to give them an inadequate time to respond. Thus, causing them to have to CANCEL the Scheduled FORECLOSURE on your home this month. In which would buy you at least another month, of time, to come to some sort of other resolution, or another means necessary to HALT the continued Foreclosure Attempts.

 

 

 

THE FDCPA RULES STATE: the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof!!!!!!!! until they get the following information "MAILED" back to you.

verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

THIS would buy you AT LEAST 1 MORE MONTH, BEFORE THEY CAN FORECLOSE. That is of course if they follow the procedures of the law.

 

Like I said, this would be a last stitch effort, in the event nothing has worked to cease the foreclosure up to this point.

 

***these are only ideas, of what could possibly work for your situation, and it is truly suggested that you not act upon any of these until we have the questions asked answered by the MSF veterans of this board. ***YOU SHOULD ALSO RUN THIS BY YOUR ATTORNEY BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING. ***

 

And if your Attorney does approve this method as a last resort. You should not let ANYONE, send this "disputed" letter out for you! You should send this letter out yourself, SO THAT YOU KNOW IT IS DONE PROPERLY, AND DONE INTIME.

 

What do all of the MSF VETERANS, have to comment? Please adivse

Thank you

~beenawhile

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Julie:

I want to weigh in here and come down similar to
what Ed Cage has mentioned in terms of the difficulty
and complexity of PROVING FRAUD.  This is FAR HARDER to
actually PROVE than seems to be being suggested.  And
frankly what you ahve related to us thus far does NOT
sound to me like a very good fraud case AT ALL.

This is NOT to say that I do NOT think that your attorney
should PLEAD FRAUD.  This would give a very nice basis
for discovery and set a foundation for a fraud defense if
good evidence DOES materialize.  But I really do NOT
think this is your STRONGER argument.

It seems to me that you have a much stronger defense to be
made predicated on two other equitable concepts:  estoppel
and the clean hands doctrine.

Estoppel
One dictionary defines estoppel as:

estoppel
n. a bar or impediment (obstruction) which precludes a
person from asserting a fact or a right or prevents one
from denying a fact. Such a hindrance is due to a person's
actions, conduct, statements, admissions, failure to act
or judgment against the person in an identical legal case.
Estoppel includes being barred by false representation or
concealment (equitable estoppel), failure to take legal
action until the other party is prejudiced by the delay
(estoppel by laches), and a court ruling against the party
on the same matter in a different case (collateral estoppel).
http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=665&bold=

John Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 6th ed (1856) defines Estoppel
in this way:

ESTOPPEL, pleading. An estoppel is a preclusion, in law,
which prevents a man from alleging or denying a fact, in
consequence o his own previous act, allegation or denial
of a contrary tenor. Stepb. Pl. 239. Lord Coke says, " an
estoppel is, when a man is concluded by his own act or
acceptance, to say the truth." Co. Litt. 352, a. And
Blackstone defines "an estoppel to be a special plea in bar,
which happens where a man has done some act, or executed
some deed, which estops or precludes him from averring any
thing to the contrary. 3 Cora. 308. Estoppels are odious in
law; 1 Serg. & R. 444; they are not admitted in equity
against the truth. Id. 442. Nor can jurors be estopped from
saying the truth, because they are sworn to do so, although
they are estopped from finding against the admission of the
parties in their pleadings. 2 Rep. 4; Salk. 276; B. N. P. 298;
2 Barn. & Ald. 662; Angel on Water Courses, 228-9. See Co.
Litt. 352, a, b, 351, a. notes.
http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier_e.htm

[See the full definition with elaboration at the link above]

There is a very basic write-ups on Estoppel at the
Wikipedia web site at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel_%28English_law%29

I would call your particular attention to the discussion
relating to "Estoppel by representation of fact".  Consider
the cited definition taken from Wilken and Villiers, The Law
of Waiver, Variation and Estoppel, 2nd ed, Oxford: 2003,
at para 9.02:

An estoppel by representation [of fact] will arise between A
and B if the following elements are made out. First, A makes
a false representation of fact to B or to a group of which B
was a member. [It is not necessary to demonstrate A knew that
the representation was untrue.] Second, in making the
representation, A intended or [in the alternatively,] knew
that it was likely to be acted upon. Third, B, believing the
representation, acts to its detriment in reliance on the
representation. [It must have been reasonable to rely on
the representation.] Fourth, A subsequently seeks to deny the
truth of the representation. Fifth, no defence to the estoppel
can be raised by A.

"The Supreme Court has recognized that, under federal law,
"estoppel is an equitable doctrine invoked to avoid injustice
in particular cases." n30

n30 Heckler v. Community Health Servs. of Crawford County, Inc.,
467 U.S. 51, 59, 104 S. Ct. 2218, 81 L. Ed. 2d 42 (1984).

Minard v. ITC Deltacom Communs., Inc., No. 04-30230 , UNITED
STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT, 447 F.3d 352;
2006 U.S. App. LEXIS 9721; 152 Lab. Cas. (CCH) P35,123; 87
Empl. Prac. Dec. (CCH) P42,343; 11 Wage & Hour Cas. 2d (BNA)
609, April 18, 2006, Filed.

You will want to look to OHIO cases on estoppel to find
authority in support of your case.

*

Clean Hands Doctrine
Similarly, it would appear to me that you can make a much
stronger argument based upon the equitable defense known
as the "Clean Hands Doctrine".  The basic idea embraced by
the Clean Hands Doctrine is that "equity must come with
clean hands".

It is also closely related to the equitable maxim "he who
seeks equity, must do equity".

There is a very basic write-up on this doctrine at the
Wikipedia web site at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unclean_hands

Like estoppel, the Clean Hands Doctrine is arises from English
common law and older than the United States!

NOr is this an arcane concept of English Common Law without
support in the United states.  Consider this express instruction
and guidance from the United States Supreme Court in 1945:

"[1]The guiding doctrine in this case is the equitable maxim
that "he who comes into equity must come with clean hands."
This maxim is far more than a mere banality. It is a self-imposed
ordinance that closes the doors of a court of equity to one
tainted with inequitableness or bad faith relative to the matter
in which he seeks relief, however improper may have been the
behavior of the defendant. That doctrine is rooted in the
historical concept of court of equity as a vehicle for
affirmatively enforcing the requirements of conscience and
good faith. This presupposes a refusal on its part to be "the
abettor of iniquity." Bein v. Heath, 6 How. 228, 247.  [*16] 
Thus while "equity does not demand that its suitors shall
have led blameless lives," Loughran v. Loughran, 292 U.S. 216,
229, as to other matters, it does require that they shall have
acted fairly and without fraud or deceit as to the controversy
in issue. Keystone Driller Co. v. General Excavator Co., 290
U.S. 240, 245; Johnson v. Yellow Cab Co., 321 U.S. 383, 387;
2 Pomeroy, Equity Jurisprudence (5th Ed.) §§ 379-399.
 
[2]This maxim necessarily gives wide range to the equity court's
use of discretion in refusing to aid the unclean litigant. It is
"not bound by formula or restrained by any limitation that tends
to trammel the free and just exercise of discretion." Keystone
Driller Co. v. General Excavator Co., supra, 245, 246. Accordingly
one's misconduct need not necessarily have been of such a nature
as to be punishable as a crime or as to justify legal proceedings
of any character. Any willful act concerning  [*17]  the cause of
action which rightfully can be said to transgress equitable
standards of conduct is sufficient cause for the invocation of
the maxim by the chancellor.

[3]Moreover, where a suit in equity concerns the public interest
as well as the private interests of the litigants this doctrine
assumes even wider and more significant proportions. For if an
equity court properly uses the maxim to withhold its assistance
in such a case it not only prevents a wrongdoer from enjoying
the fruits of his transgression but averts an injury to the public.
The determination of when the maxim should be applied to bar this
type of suit thus becomes of vital significance. See Morton Salt
Co. v. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488, 492-494."

Precision Instrument Mfg. Co. v. Auto. Maint. Mach. Co., No. 377,
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES, 324 U.S. 806; 65 S. Ct. 993;
89 L. Ed. 1381; 1945 U.S. LEXIS 2797; 65 U.S.P.Q. (BNA) 133,
January 31, February 1, 1945, Argued , April 23, 1945, Decided.

You will want to look to OHIO cases on the "Clean Hands Doctrine"
to find authority in support of your case.

Others in this forum who are litigating cases in judicial foreclosure
states should be cognizant that foreclosure is an equitable remedy
and therefor the "Clean Hands Doctrine" should almost ALWAYS be
pled where misconduct or wrongdoing exists on the part of the
foreclosing entity or their agent!

* * *

Bear in mind that in most states, defenses may be pled in the
ALTERNATIVE.  That is, you need NOT choose whether to argue
that there is fraud, estoppel by representation of fact OR unclean
hands.  You may alternatively argue ALL OF THESE and it I were
in your position that is precisely what I would DO.

The information above if NOT LEGAL ADVICE.  Rather, these are
some LAY MUSINGS by a NON-LAWYER.  But I would ENCOURAGE
you to read up on these concepts and DISCUSS THESE DEFENSES
WITH YOUR LAWYER.

* * *

Finally, I want to express some DISMAY at the very MESSAGE THREAD
topic.  The CORRECT AND BEST WAY to FIND EVIDENCE is through DISCOVERY.  If your DISCOVERY is NOT already now under way, you
NEED TO GET IT STARTED.  NO ONE IN THIS FORUM HAS ANY EVIDENCE
TO SHARE RELATING TO THE SPECIFIC FACTS OF YOUR CASE.  YOU
NEED TO DEMAND AND GET THAT EVIDENCE FROM YOUR PLAINTIFF.

I DO HAVE SOME VERY IMPORTANT EVIDENCE OF ONGOING EVIDENCE
FABRICATION IN OHIO, BUT YOUR LAWYER HAS NOT CONTACTED ME.
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The Possibility of a Remarkable Outcome!

Based upon the facts outlined, I believe that you have an
exceptional opportunity to DEFEAT the foreclosure action!
NOT by the FRAUD pleading, but solely based upon estoppel
and/or unclean hands.  I would NOT want to be bringing this
case as the mortgage lender / investor / servicer!!

But there are also some UNUSUAL dimensions that I would
call to your attention.

The suit on the promissory note in most jurisdictions is usually
a suit under a contract at law under the UCC.  Suits at law
are NOT necessarily subject to the equitable defenses I
cited above.

By contrast, foreclosure is inherently an equitable remedy and
the equitable maxims and defenses cited can hold and be quite
potent.

IF the mortgage investor takes this matter to TRIAL, I think
you very well might WIN the foreclosure action, though you still
could LOSE the suit at law on the promissory note.  (You
MIGHT be able to use similar defenses in the action at law, too.
Some jurisdictions allow very similar concepts to be pled in suits
at law.)

IF the lender / mortgage investor / servicer LOSES the foreclosure
suit, they would very possibly be BARRED by res judicata from
EVER initiating foreclosure again!  In some states, homeowners
without mortgages have very strong homestead protections.  It
is unclear to me whether Ohio is such a state.

In a stte with strong homestead protections, a borrower facing
a judgement on a promissory note WITHOUT a valid mortgage (as
in when any foreclosure under a mortgage is BARRED by res
judicata) could discharge the indebtedness through bankruptcy
and then own the house free and clear of a mortgage.

Different states have various rules regarding WHEN a plaintiff can
take a "non-suit" (voluntary dismissal of the case).  In some states,
a voluntary non-suit may be taken right up to the moment of trial.
But elsewhere, after certain actions are taken, a suit can no longer
voluntarily dismissed without prejudice.

Frankly, I believe that your defense is SO STRONG, that I would
immediately get discovery underway and seek to get the case to
a point where NO NON-SUIT could be taken (IF this is possible in
Ohio).  I really do NOT think that the plaintiff is going to want to
take this to trial.  They are going to want to SETTLE.

But that probably LEAVES YOU STUCK with your legal bills!!

I believe that with PROPER DISCOVERY and well pled defenses,
including an early motion for partial summary judgment on the
estoppel and/or unclean hands claim that you could WIN.  IF YOU
WIN, you are probably in a position to BARGAIN with the mortgage
investor and obtain SIGNIFICANT concessions as to the AMOUNT
of the mortgage indebtedness.  If you BEAT them on the foreclosure
but NOT the note, you can still possibly get some debt relief through bankruptcy, but that might be undesirable for other reasons and
may be UNNECESSARY.

There are other avenues to victory that would substantially IMPROVE
your chances of prevailing on the "unclean hands" theory, but I am
NOT going to lay these out in this forum.

You also should explore pleading standing and capacity

Finally, I want to point out that in many states, it is very difficult to
win attorneys' fees even when you prevail EXCEPT when the contract
you are suing on provides for attorneys' fees OR in a tort action.
This makes pleading and proving FRAUD appealing.  The other defenses
mentioned are NOT based upon torts (though torts may be part
of the misconduct giving rise to unclean hands).

The promissory note probably entitles the lender / mortgage investor /
Mortgage servicer to attorneys' fees when THEY prevail.  The contract
will NOT be reciprocal.  You will only emerge WHOLE through a CLEAN
win on one or more points and/or a negotiated settlement when
the plaintiff fully appreciates how precarious their case has become.

I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY TO
IMPROVE YOUR CASE AND TO WIN THROUGH EARLY AND AGGRESSIVE
DISCOVERY.  IF YOU AND/OR YOUR ATTORNEY SIT ON YOUR HANDS
AND FAIL TO GET YOUR DISCOVERY UNDERWAY WITHIN THE NEXT TWO
TO FOUR WEEKS, I BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL BE A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.
THERE ARE OTHER EVENTS ALREADY UNDERWAY WHICH I BELIEVE
WILL CONSIDERABLY CHANGE THE FORECLOSURE CLIMATE IN OHIO.
IF YOU FAIL TO ACT VERY QUICKLY YOU WILL MISS OUT ON AN
OPPORTUNITY TO PUT THE PLAINTIFF IN A VERY BAD POSITION.
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O -
Mr Roper is right!

If there is fraud on the mortgage, I would work a paper trail around that and Best Practice plus breach of contract. I don't know much, But I have been in litigation for a while now. you might look at noncompliance also.

Did you send a RESPA letter? If not you should. ASAP your attorney can do that also.

Good Luck!
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I am a disabled veteran who was told my housewas foreclosured in 2011 I was recovering from injuries in Germany when I received notice now I'm home thinking my home was already sold because their attorney told me it was noe I recieved a letter asking why I didn't have home insurance anymore so I caleled and they transferred me to the attorney again and he said the house has not been sold can anyone help me or have any advice I was told under the soldier and sailors act they were not allowed to foreclosure but all my and my kids belongings are out of the house before we even got back to the states please help a disabled veteran
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Zach
Quote:
I am a disabled veteran who was told my housewas foreclosured in 2011 I was recovering from injuries in Germany when I received notice now I'm home thinking my home was already sold because their attorney told me it was noe I recieved a letter asking why I didn't have home insurance anymore so I caleled and they transferred me to the attorney again and he said the house has not been sold can anyone help me or have any advice I was told under the soldier and sailors act they were not allowed to foreclosure but all my and my kids belongings are out of the house before we even got back to the states please help a disabled veteran


It is probably a good idea to work this problem through two separate and independent avenues.

Find an experienced lawyer with JAG service, active or reserve.  A lawyer with JAG training will better understand the Servicemember's Civil Relief Act dimensions of the problem.

Separately, find an experienced consumer debt / bankruptcy / foreclosure defense lawyer experienced with consumer debt and foreclosure issues for your state.  The JAG lawyer will probably not have enough foreclosure experience.  You will need both.

The facts of your situation set you apart from the knowledge and experience set of almost anyone at the Forum with the possible exception of Mr. Roper, who left the Forum some time ago.

Beware of those who contact you through the Forum offering to help.  There are several swindlers who troll the Forum looking for new victims!
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