Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
Articles |The FORUM |Law Library |Videos | Fraudsters & Co. |File Complaints |How they STEAL |Search MSFraud |Contact Us

Oct I received notice from Previous Mortgage, Inc. that my loan servicer is changing to Homeq Servicing. Nov 1st I had still not received a notice from Homeq that I am a new customer. I called yesterday morning to find out who, and how I should pay my mortgage payment. Being that Nov 1st has come and gone I am technically late. I am unable to post payment at Previous Mortgage, Inc. and have no account info to post payment to Homeq.

After contacting Homeq customer service via phone, I was told they have no record of my loan. I gave them my old loan number and SSN and she was able to find an account number but my loan had not yet "boarded" in their system. I asked how I am to pay. She said I 'probably couldn't' and then said I could 'maybe'. It would take 7 to 10 days to get my loan 'officially in their system'. Once that happens I would be notified within 2 days by mail. This is probably 7 to 10 days from Nov 1st. That puts me making a payment on or about 12 November (3 days prior to being beyond grace period).

Now with all the ripoff reports and info I am scared to death about this first payment setting off an endless nightmare for me and my credit report and wallet.

I will aggressively work to refi and get off of this subprime loan I just got back in August 07( fixed/30yr/10.2%). But in the meantime I need to be vigilant about not screwing up my credit... by them creatively posting payments or not posting payments in a timely manner.

I would like some suggestions on the best way to insure my payment gets their and I can avoid the late payment this month and months ahead. I am wary about sending payment and getting double charges or not having a good paper trail. ETC...

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Quote 0 0
You're right, your best bet is to now REFI away from them.







Good Luck

Quote 0 0
OK.  That is what I thought.  I can barely stand the anxiety I am feeling right now.
Best kind of attorney?

Should I make a payment to an address and account number she gave me?  Without having their hello letter?  of course, saving all documentation and everything?

I have been waiting for the letter in the mail...Probably not coming in time, huh?

Now. I have a poor/fair credit score 570-ISH.  Low income/debt ratio, high income.
What are my refi chances to something that will SAVE me??  not another subprime?
Quote 0 0
Joe B

     You certainly have some future options over the horizon. However, the target across the bow is the fact that you have a payment due. You need to stay off the phone, and start putting things in writing.

     You need to send a letter to both old and new advising them that you have not received the mandatory hello goodbye letter advising you of the alleged change in servicing. You are prepared to pay whoever is supposed to receive your payment, but you cannot confirm who that is. Make both old and new aware that you are copying the other, and get this in the mail tomorrow AM. Send it certified and return receipt with signature!

     Then, if you are still in the Navy (or retired), head over the the Jag's office and have a sit down with them and your mortgage note and letter. Have them prepare a similar letter on your behalf, and have them advise you of the best way to handle this.

     Secondly, if you have a VA loan, you have some built-in protections. Also, if you are getting ready to deploy, you have still other options. Nevertheless, deal with the biggest threat first.

     Yes, you can refinance away, but it is going to cost you many thousands, so let's not be penny wise and pound foolish...yet!

     Do this, and let us know how we can help. Right now, you don't have a huge problem, but let's stay aggressively ahead of it! We are here to help.

Quote 0 0
In addition to that RESPA "hello/goodbye" showing up a minimum of 15 prior to servicing rights xferring also comes a 60 day grace period during which no late fees are supposed to be assessed to a borrower. That being the case, you've already got RESPA violations on your hands.

That said, I'll also reiterate that it's only illegal if they get caught. Now, being proactive is one thing. Doing your mortgage servicer's job for them should not be a requirement. It's understandable that you want to stay on top of things and protect your credit rating, however, there may simply not be much that you can do about it beyond having an attorney up to speed and hitting the ground running once things finally start moving.

The bottom line, strictly in my opinion, is that it is not your fault or problem that your old and new servicers can't get their collective excrement together and do their jobs according to the letters of the laws governing them. Granted you are attempting to head of a potential headache here but bear in mind that if you are ultimately unsuccessful in doing so that there are legal remedies that your servicer(s) absolutely should be repeatedly flogged with mercilessly.

Start documenting your time line now. Document literally everything that transpires having anything to do with your loan from date of origination on. Names, dates, times, phone numbers, topics of conversation, letters received when, what, etc. And yes, whenever possible, stay off of the phone altogether or at they very least document the conversation with a follow up letter.

Feel free to drop me a line if there's anything I can do....
Quote 0 0

We share the same wonderful Servicer.

Here is contact information for the CEO and Chief Financial officer at Homeq.  If that don't work I will give you the name of their attorney.

Email them to see if the will help get your payment posted.  Then work really hard on that refi.

Good Luck!
Quote 0 0
Thanks for the tips.

Here is my plan.  Please tell me the fault in my plan...

I have been able to get a refi as long as title clears and payoff amount is available.  I want to send a payment to the new servicer without a letter from them, but using the knowledge I have received from my initial mortgage lender's goodbye letter and the phone con I had with CS (saying that I would become a client, they saw it coming(not quite there,though) and the loan number I was given.  CS told me to send the payment to the address on the goodbye letter from previous mortgage lender and put the acct number on the check.
I will copy the previous mortgage lender's payment coupon and supply a letter explaining that I have not received the hello letter yet but wish to have my payment applied to the account number provided by their CS.
Just a check from my bank.
plain envelope.
Then wait for the check to clear my account.  Saving all docs on the way.
I should be able to close on the new mortgage by Dec 1st.  If not should I be scared?
Does this sound good?  Where's the fault in my plan?

I have seen on the forum where sending certified mailed payments may cause them to intentionally be posted late which doesn't help my situation.

Any help or advice is welcome.  you are all very helpful.  Since most have been there longer than me.

My loan is conventional FHA, no prepayment penalty, no escrow, I am a vet not retiree. 

I am getting help from a mortgage lender friend for the refi at 6%/30yr fixed.  Very reliable guy.
He has lawyers that he trusts.  But I'm not sure how much they know about msfraud cases.  Some of the info here may help me with an attorney.  The advice I am getting says bad guys have to do something wrong before I can really do anything. 

Please respond.  I will be doing this tomorrow morning and maybe more from your advice
Quote 0 0

Wouldn't emailing them alert them to ME and MY ACCOUNT.  So when I attempt to refi they just shut me down??

I am truly scared to make the wrong move.

I have been SLEEPLESSLY reading these forums and for 4 days and nights.  NOT JOKING, SLEEPLESSLY!!

I have learned how to be a really good BAD GUY!!  If I were trying to foreclose on me for no apparent reason I could...
Your comments are more than welcomed thank you.

I sware if I get out of this I will do my best to get in touch with the media and let the world know.  Thanks.
Quote 0 0
Way To Go

As has been covered above, but worth repeating: A servicer cannot charge a late fee or report a loan delinquent for 60-days following the transfer of servicing. 


Sending your payment is a good idea.  If you do, be sure to make a photocopy of the check, together with whatever else you enclose with the check.  Also, be sure you put your current account number on the Memo line of your check.


Then send it CERTIFIED, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED.  This way you can prove what they received and when they received it.

Quote 0 0
Thanks Way to Go,

What do you mean by current account number?
The Previous Mort. acct number or Homeq acct number obtained in phone call to CS?


Plus I have heard sending certified mail is a way to automatically get a late payment posted or not posted, I should say.  What do you think?  Thanks.
Quote 0 0
Joe B

     put both numbers on the check:

HomeEq account number 123456
Old servicer account number 456789

This along with the letter should keep you ok.

Remember for the 1st 60 days nothing bad can happen due to the changeover. So, you should be ok from a late charge and late reporting perspective. I think you are doing all you reasonably can to "do the right thing." You are getting good advice, and I think you will be OK.

Now the problem will be getting a straight number from someone in order to refinance!

Quote 0 0
Thanks Joe B,

You are helping a lot!  Thanks.

What about my certified mail question?  I hate to keep asking...But...I want to be as perfect as possible.

Getting the right number is going to be difficult??
Quote 0 0
Joe B

     Just send it "delivery confirmation," and don't send it to a P.O. Box if you can avoid it. Delivery confirmation is just what it sounds like. It is a confirmation by the postal service that it arrived at the address at a certain date and time. That's all you need, the rest is up to them!

     I have used it, and they give you a tracking number and you can watch it online. Really simple, and it should give you the comfort you are seeking.

Quote 0 0
Joe thanks,

The only address they gave me was a PO Box so I guess that is all I have. 
Their website also says the following:

Mailing tips
To ensure timely posting of your payment when making a payment by mail:

  • Include only the payment coupon from your account statement with your check
  • Include your account number on the face of your check
  • Send only one payment per envelope
  • Use the appropriate mailing address for your loan

Lots of CYA on their part, just enabling their deception.

Thanks for everything.  If you have any other advice I might need I would welcome it.
Quote 0 0
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Joe on this - but bear in mind that I've been at this for a few years already. There is no legal reason for a payment sent CRR should be held up. That said, the servicer is going to do what the servicer is going to do regardless of the mode of transportation and documentation of receipt of this payment. Nothing that you do on your end should affect that. Therefore, your biggest concern with regard to your payments is to document receipt of same by the servicer. I believe that CRR is just a better method of proof than delivery confirmation. Additionally, it may alert them that you know how to play the game as well as they do.

CRR should give you an actual signature to refer to if/when the time comes to corroborate receipt of payment. "Mr. Smith, is that your signature on this little green card?"... "Yes."... "So this document tells me that you actually signed for and took physical possession of this parcel that contained Mr. Navyman's 11/01/07 monthly mortgage payment on 11/03/07 correct?"... "" ..."No further questions at this time, your Honor."

As far as account numbers are concerned, I think what JB and WTG are trying to demonstrate is simply to make it as difficult as possible for your monthly payment to "mistakenly" go anywhere but your account. If all you have is your loan account # from your "old" servicer then make certain that that account# is associated with this payment. Note it on the check itself as well as in the little one page cover letter that accompanies the payment stating that this account # is from the previous servicer and that HomeEq has not yet assigned their own account#. And yes, make copies of the check and letter before they are sent out.

Remember, too, that while the laws on the books ultimately should protect you in the long run, there is nothing that says that the new servicer won't at least try to get one over on you by slapping you with late fees within that 60 day window. Again, it's only illegal if they get caught. You just happen to be ready to catch them..

Hang in there... You're on top of this as much as you possibly can be...
Quote 0 0
Great info.  I totally agree that they will do what they will do.  I am very thankful that you all are humoring my questions and scenarios because I can see arguments, myself, from both sides. 
If I send it CRR to a PO Box won't that cause some problems?
That is the only address I have.

The acct. # I have "in writing" is the original acct number.
On Monday I called and spoke with CS and after a moment of researching they found a loan number for my "upcoming" account with them.

So include both on doc and check. Right?

Thanks so much again.  Maybe after grinding the last ounce of info from you guys I might sleep tonight...
Quote 0 0
Navyman, Wait!!!!!!!!!!


I am quite suprised noone has caught it yet.

The new mortgage servicer gave you an account #, over the telephone, but has not given it to you in writing.

I have heard of them taking payments from a borrower who mistakenly used the wrong account #. THIS IS THE KIND OF STUFF THEY ARE WANTING YOU TO DO.


Since you do not have your NEW Mortgage Account # in Writing, they can give you a fake account # over the phone, (with intentions of it all falling right into their pockets)

You send check to them with fake account #, they go "Well, well look at this we have a check from NAVYMAN, but he's used the wrong account # .........HA HA HA HA" as they take your check right down to the bank, and keep it for themselves.

We've all heard of it happening, is it true? YES IT IS!

My advice is............DON'T SEND THEM A CHECK UNTIL YOU GET THE ACCOUNT # IN WRITING. Others here may disagree with me........... But this is exaclty what the servicers want. They play off of your fear, and anxiety. BE CAREFUL, and BE WEARY of every single decision you make.

Let's weigh the odds for a second:
If you send payment now:
1. Your payment is already late (their fault)
2. You DO NOT have you're NEW account number in writing.
3. They can issue a bogus account # to you over the phone, ( and you'd not have much recourse there, Pretty much no way of proving it.)
4. If you sent payment with the bogus account # on it .... You can consider that money GONE FOREVER, BYE BYE!
5. Chances are they are going to report you late to the credit bureaus so it is showing on your credit as of December 1,2007. (even though it is their fault it is late.)

If you don't send payment now:
1. You will need to get the RESPA letter in the MAIL immediatley, (just as the others here have suggested.) Both Companies need a copy of the same letter. (More about the RESPA letter in a second)

2.They will probalby report you as being late on your payment. (Though it is illegal, becuase during the transfer of a loan from one company to another the borrower has 60 days before the 1st payment is due. This is a FEDERAL REGULATION to help protect you from this sort of thing happening. Sorry to say though, the servicers usually dont care, and usually dont abide by the 60 day Regualtion.)

Anyway, re-read the top of # 2 again. Doesnt matter cause its also listed above in the "What if you do send payment paragraph"

3. You are putting them on EXTREME NOTICE, with the RESPA letter that you ARE ALREADY ONTO THEIR GAME.

4. There is then the small possibility that they will not want to MUCK with you, since you are ALREADY "informed, and educated" on RULES, REGULATIONS, and how the SCAM begins.

5. They can claim you are in default, after your payment is 30 days late.
(Not legally though, cause remember you have 60 days to get your 1st payment to them, since this loan is being transferred.)

In the letter tell them, that you would like to make your monthly payment, and that you have waited for the appropriate paperwork with the new account # to arrive in the mail, and as of yet it still has not.

You have made several phone calls to each Company in Regards to this months Montly payment, and since Neither of the companies are able to help you with the information that you have requested via Telephone, you are  Not sure WHERE to send the payment, and you NEED the appropriate account # in writing, for your records, to verify that payments are placed appropriately in the correct account associated with (your NAME, Navy man) and your address listed for the Specific property associated with the loan on (123 Servicers Suck Lane, SOBville, Nevada)

Then remind them that TILA regulations state that their HELLO LETTER must be delivered to you at leat 15 days PRIOR to their, accquisition date, of the servicing of your loan.  You are exercising one of your Legal Rights as a borrower with the submission of this "Qualified Written Request"  since no hello letter has been recieved from Home-eq with the  WRITTEN/and/or TYPED, account number to be used with the processing of your payments on this loan, They can be held accountable for all the Violations of the law THUS FAR. And they are as Follows:

1. Failure to supply a Hello Letter.
2. Failure to supply a Hello Letter at least 15 days prior to the 1st payment due date, (with Home-eq)
3. Failure to supply appropraite written, and or typed account number, for your appropriate record keeping.
4. Failure to provide to you in writing, to which address you should be sending your monthly payments to.
5. Failure to provide to you, What the due date is for your payments.
6. Failure to provide to you the days they allow as (GRACE PERIOD)
and then tell them that it is your understanding of FEDERAL REGULATIONS, that they MUST allow 60 late days of payment, during the transferring of a loan from one Company to another,  (with you, HOME EQ being the (another)before they are Legally allowed to report to any of the credit bureaus that your payment has been late.

Then state again, that it appears that they are unwilling to provide the necessary documentation to you, and their lack of providing this information has caused a lag in your payment at their fault. As well as their lack of supplying this information, it provides that they are in full Negligence of the LAWS.

Since, your company has failed to comply with these specific RULES and REGULATIONS with the recieving of my loan through transference Home-Eq   shall not incur; against, on, to, in, apply, combine, with, or associate in any way whatsoever, any of the following,
on the account listed under my name Mr. NAVY MAN in association with the loan under your representation regarding the address listed in the "Original, Closing Documents" as  123 Servicers SUCK Lane SOBville, Nevada)

Again, None of the following shall happen,
1. Late Fees
2. Property Appraisals
3. BPO's (Broker Price Opinions)
4. Any type of Property preservation Fees, or any of the such.
5. Any legal Fees
6. Any processing Fees
7. Any Escrow charges
8. Any Suspense account charges
9. Any Corporate Executive Fees
10. And any other fees that I have failed to mention in this letter.
Along with
11. Reporting of late payment to ANY of the National or local Credit Bureaus.


in association with the loan under your "DISCONTINUED" representation as of NOVEMBER 01, 2007 regarding the address listed in the "Original, Closing Documents" as  123 Servicers SUCK Lane SOBville, Nevada) To add fees or cause harm to this account via your company EMC MORTGAGE CORP. (or the like) and/ or via HOME-EQ account, after your date of Discontinuation is explecitly illict, and shall not be done. So all of the above stated in Numbers 1-11 SHALL NOT BE DONE BY YOU, Your Corporation, Your Parnters, or the such, or by Your Representaion whether Legal or Other, in any way shape or form.

Then state...........
Since this is a Qualifed Written Request,
I understand that you have 20 days to send acknowledgement of this letter, under FEDERAL GUIDELINES.

With this letter it is EXPECTED that you will send all of the following as STATED by the FEDERAL GUIDELINES:

1. Written/typed information as to what my account number shall be with your company.

2. Information as to a specific mailing address to send my monthly payments to for appropraite application to principal and interest only.

3. Information regarding your expected Due date.
4. Information regarding the amount of days allowed in YOUR Grace Period.
5. Information regarding "Contact" Departments, mailing addresses, and Phone nujmbers. Such as Insurance Department, Customer Service, and so forth.

Your Name
Telephone number

A. Then make a copy of this letter, and put it in your personal files.
B.  Send this certified Mail, Signature Required to the "QUALITY ASSURANCE   DEPARTMENT" at BOTH Mortgage companies.
C. Staple your copies of the Cert. mail. RECEIPT to YOUR copy of the RESPA Letter.

D. When the mail man brings back the Signature card to you Staple it to YOUR copy of the RESPA letter. This keeps all of your paperwork together, and makes it much easier for compiling the information later.

You should do this with your paper work, EVERY TIME you send out a RESPA letter.

More advice, just because it has to be said......... JUST BECAUSE YOU GET 60 DAYS, doesnt mean you should feel lucky and send you out on a spending spree.

Set your payment aside where you KNOW you will not touch it........ Until you get the appropraite information you need to send your payment off.

I dont for one second think that this was an honest mistake, or computer errors,by either of the companies. I think this was done INTENTIONALLY, so they could GET you from the GET GO..... RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

If they know you've already pegged them and their fraud, they might leave you alone and move on elsewhere.

Just my own personal thoughts, again none of this is legal advice,,,,, you make the choices. Your home, your life.
Good luck,
hope some of this helped.

Quote 0 0

Navyman wrote:
Thanks Way to Go,
Plus I have heard sending certified mail is a way to automatically get a late payment posted or not posted, I should say.  What do you think?  Thanks.

Ok, one thing you need to remember..... the places where you hear, read or see information can be places where the servicers post as well...

It is not done here, I believe the board owner/moderator(s) keep a good check on the board to see who is legitamate, and who is not.

Ive seen the mortgage companies on other boards....
Pretending to be victims, and giving wrong information, on purpose.

For someone to tell you that you should NEVER send your payment CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT, SIGNATURE REQUIRED, is WRONG information!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!

You always want to send your payment CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT, SIGNATURE REQUIRED because this is proof to COVER YOUR BUTT, and says YES THEY DI GET PAYMENT, AND BY WHOM.

You send a payment in without using this method you have just kissed that payment goodbye, as it will go to the depths of Suspense account or elsewhere.

The mortgage co. will specifically tell you this over the phone too. Why? BECAUSE they dont want you to have any way of tracking payments made to them, and they dont want to be held accountable to applying the payments appropriatley.

If you are worried about FUTURE payments getting there on time, then send your payment out a couple days earlier than you normally would. Problem Solved.

Quote 0 0
Navyman wrote:
Joe thanks,

The only address they gave me was a PO Box so I guess that is all I have. 
Their website also says the following:

Mailing tips
To ensure timely posting of your payment when making a payment by mail:

  • Include only the payment coupon from your account statement with your check
  • Include your account number on the face of your check
  • Send only one payment per envelope
  • Use the appropriate mailing address for your loan

Lots of CYA on their part, just enabling their deception.

Thanks for everything.  If you have any other advice I might need I would welcome it.

Whoa, hang on a second..... these mortgage companies have like 10 addresses per company, each address is for a different purpose.

Lets say you were in bankruptcy. Your Payment would HAVE to be mailed to the BANKRUPTCY Department. If you sent your payment to ANY other address, it could take forever before it gets applied to your account. Then they can come back at you and say "WELL ITS NOT OUR FAULT YOUR PAYMENT WAS LATE, YOU SENT IT TO THE WRONG ADDRESS"


Learn Quickly how to COVER your BUTT!
And trust your gut.

Quote 0 0
Joe B
Beenawhile and Mike-

     I told Navyman to use delivery confirmation because in an earlier post he said he only had a P.O. box address for the new servicer. You cannot get a signature from a P.O. Box, and therefore the post office won't let you send it that way. My advice was simply the next best alternative to show proof that the payment was actually sent!

Been a while--- I will let Navyman decide for himself on the rest of your information.

Quote 0 0
Completely understandable.
And yes he's in a tight spot at this moment facing what looks to be his first of (MANY) decisions, he will have to be making in the future.

I shared that information because the same thing happened to me.
The Servicer was moving their office to another location, and I was instructed in a Letter to mail my payments to the new address.

I suspected there would be trouble with the new address, and my payment being applied on time to my account. So I sent my via CRR and SR (signature Required) approximately 13 days before the actual due date.

After getting the CRR, back in my mail box, and signed for that it had been received, and checking with my bank, to see if payment had been deducted from the account. To no avail, I had discovered the payment had STILL NOT BEEN PROCESSED. (It's a servicer... of course not) Ye with only ONE day left to go before the actual due date, I was worried that they would register my payment as late, so I canceled the check, and called the mortgage company and paid the payment over VIA the telephone ( with their electronic recordings)

The next day I called the Servicer back,  listened to the electronic recording, to make sure payment had been applied, and got the recording on audio tape confirming that the phone payment was received.
There, they couldn't claim that my payment was late.

Just in-case you are curious about the CRR SR check I mailed....... Do you know they held onto that check for 9 days after receiving, it, before they tried to cash it?

They are incredible aren't they? No wonder we all become ill at times, from this. It's a never ending, cover your back, moment.

Good Luck in your fight Joe,

and Good luck with your decision Navy Man.

Quote 0 0
me again
This is EXACTLY how EMC started with us 3 months later they still couldnt take payment.

YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY WHO IS PART OF A CONSUMER GROUP WHere are you ill get mine to find you a bulldog.

Quote 0 0
Joe B
Navyman and Beenawhile--

     Just so you have some background. I can prove that the servicer received my payments, and show they cleared my bank. I can prove not only that they processed the payments, but what day they processed the payments. Yet, they still denied receipt, lied to the judge, and initiated foreclosure. Just for your information...

     So I applaud Navyman for taking all the precautions. You are absolutely doing the right thing being cautious. Here's the real deal--straight up across the bow... No matter how well you are prepared, if they choose to commit fraud, they will, period! Laws and facts be darned!!

     So, do your best to do everything you can with this in mind: If you are sitting in a court room being asked questions about what YOU DID to honor your obligations, could a group of your peers stare back at you convinced you did everything you could be reasonably expected to do to meet your obligations. If the answer is yes, then go forward, keep protecting yourself, and watch your six!!

     On this board, we will give you a lot of things to think about. Some of us have decent information, some of it not so much. However, each of us almost without exception, is advising you based on our personal experiences and problems we have had. Even if we disagree, I argue it's only because our personal experiences have differed! (in my opinion). There may be some others with ulterior motives, but I would argue they are few. If folks disagree, it's only because we all are trying to help in our own way. Your job is to sort through all the advice (conflicting or not), and make the best decision for your situation!

     So Navyman, full ahead... Take the advice and be careful. We are here and will cover your six, I promise. Let us know how we can help!

Quote 0 0
Northern Illinois

What happened in your situation?

Quote 0 0
Settle down a bit.

You are going to give this guy an ulcer over things that have not yet happened.  None of us can control what the servicer is going to do.

Repaying my mortgage was quite the challenge 16 out of 18 months the
servicer played "hide the mortgage payment".

Just so you know, I never sent a letter or payment CRR.  They get them.
I am not against the CRR but I do suggest that if you do that, send a copy through the regular mail as well.  It is true the servicers will do just about anything to trip you up.  Wait until you try to send them a fax 13 or 14 times and they claim not to have received it.

You could try to find the name and mailing address of an officer of the company.  You can send your payment to him/her and ask him to please make sure that your first payment is processed correctly and timely.

The logic behind doing that first payment to an officer of the company is
you keep the check from being tossed into the "lock box" which is simply
a vendor for the servicer that processes the checks.  They will do nothing
to find your account number if you send it without an account #.

Additional RESPA letter to loss mitigation department.

See the sample "complaint letter"  It is imperative that you notice the servicer that this is a QWR letter under RESPA as paragraph 1.

As of today's date (insert date)You have not provided me with the required "Hello Letter" that gives me the account information in order to send my payment to you and have the check properly applied timely and correctly.

I was advised (insert date) by (insert name) that I am not yet in the system and I drew the conclusion my first payment would not be handled properly.
I have sent my payment to (however you decide to send it).

Of course whatever else you want to say.  Do not make this complex.
They can't do multiple tasks.

Always put in your letter what you want them to do in order to rectify
your complaint.  Such as in this case, I want my payment of $1,000.00
to be attributed as follows:  $800.00 interest and $200.00 to principal.

It is my understanding that during the first 60 days of the loan that no
late fee charges can be charged to my loan since you have failed to provide the "hello letter" that identifies my account number.

then cc: the officer on your respa letter and cc loss mitigation to the officer.

It is better to send it and let them lose it, if that is what they are going
to do than not pay it all.  You will want to behave perfectly and have the servicer make all the mistakes.

This is directly from the HUD site.  I suggest you take a tour of the HUD
site and to see if there is any other info there can be useful since you
are going to refinance.

Frankly, I am more concerned that when you refinance that you protect
yourself in the loan that gives you a decent interest rate than doing battle over the first payment.  

There are other additonal things to consider when you refinance than the interest rate.  Make sure your friend tells you who is going to fund this loan.
Take a look around on the internet and see if they are one of the problem companies.  Is your loan going to be considered sub prime?  Maybe not but check it anyway.

We have had so many people manage to get a refi only to end up right
back with the same servicer or any of a number of the scammers.
Pretend this guy is not your friend for a moment.  No insult to him but
Brokers are step 1 to a life of hell and overcharges in the mortgage process.
You are not really their client and they don't necessarily ever let you know
they are paid by the originator and they have financial incentives in placing
you in the worst possible loan they can find and that you will accept
because you think it is the "Best" they can do for you.

Your Rights and the Responsibilities of the Mortgage Servicer

 Information by State
 Esta página en español
 Print version
 Email this to a friend
When you apply for a home mortgage, you may think that the lender, or loan originator, will service the loan until it is paid off or your house is sold. However, in today's market mortgage servicing rights often are bought and sold. The Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA) is a consumer protection statute. Sections 6 and 10 of RESPA provide you with certain rights regarding the servicing of your mortgage and escrow account. Please read this important information concerning your rights and the responsibility of your loan servicer.

Duty of Loan Servicer to Respond to Complaints. If you have questions or problems with the servicing of your loan, the servicer is required to respond to you. Write to your servicer and call it a "qualified written request under Section 6 of RESPA." It should be a separate letter and not mailed with your payment. The mortgage servicer must respond to you within 60 business days of receipt. (See Sample Written Complaint to Lender.)

Loan Transferred to New Servicer. Your loan servicer is required to notify you in writing at least 15 days before the servicing of your loan is transferred to a new servicer. The notice must include the following information:

  • The effective date of the transfer, the date your current servicer will stop accepting payments and the date the new servicer will begin accepting them.
  • The name, address, and toll-free or collect call telephone number for the new servicer.
  • Information that tells whether you can continue any optional insurance, such as mortgage life or disability insurance, and what action, if any, you must take to maintain coverage.
  • A statement that the transfer of servicing does not affect any term or condition of your mortgage documents other than the terms directly related to the servicing of the loan.

Treatment of Payments During Transfer Period. During the 60-day period beginning on the effective date of the transfer, the payment may not be treated as late if you mistakenly send it to the old mortgage servicer instead of the new one.

Escrow Account. RESPA does not require that you maintain an escrow account for the purpose of paying property taxes, hazard insurance, etc. Nor does RESPA have any jurisdiction over the decision of the lender or servicer to require or terminate an escrow account. RESPA does, however, provide you with the following protections with regard to the escrow account:

  • If your lender or mortgage servicer requires you to maintain an escrow account for the purpose of paying property taxes, hazard insurance, etc., RESPA requires that the servicer pay such items by the dates due to avoid a penalty or late charge.
  • RESPA sets limits on the maximum amount of money the servicer may require you to maintain and pay in the escrow account. (More information about escrow accounts, including how to calculate the maximum amount RESPA allows the lender to require in the escrow account.)

Quote 0 0
Couldn't agree with you more, JB. And you're right - personal experience is all that any of us can really speak from. Ultimately, it's up to each MSF victim to decide what is going to work best in their own situation. Which is exactly why each and every victim absolutely has to be as active as possible in their own case.

In the long run, (pardon me for speaking about you in the 3rd person for a sec NvM) I think Navyman is going to come out ahead because he was able to recognize issues almost before they happened. Not only that, but he's learning about the entire process and looking for solutions to current and future problems. That makes for a formidable victim which may help him out in the long run. If nothing else, he'll be well prepared for future battles.
Quote 0 0
You guys are endlessly helpful.  I appreciate it.

Let me ask this...

Does Homeq own my note or just have rights to servicing?

If they don't own it.  Can my refi company contact the true owner and get payoff from them?  And deal directly with them?

How do I find any of this out?  QRW??  Thanks in advance.
Quote 0 0
Thanks Dee,

I am getting an ulcer.

So let me get this straight.  I like to take it all in and make my decision.  I am real close to sending payment, but...

1.  Send payment with acct # on it from CS phone call.  Old loan coupon in envelope, a small letter stating my situation with lack of paper.
a. Send it to PO box phone call directed me to OR try to contact an officer of the company. (I am worried that I will be highlighted and then fastracked!!)

2.  Send QWR about the hello letter and informing of need of account info in writing.
3.  Send loss mitigation QWR to officer and customer complaint, and customer service department

I am ready to do that.  It all sounds good.  I am wondering if I have problems with getting the payoff amount what is my next step??

Thanks again.
Quote 0 0

Should I try to call customer service again and see if they give me the same account number.  AND anything else you guys think I might ask in the phone call.....???????
Quote 0 0

I have had no luck in finding out who owns our loan that Homeq is servicing.  It is supposed to be on your title and the deed the your county courthouse holds.  I would check there first.

Navyman wrote:
You guys are endlessly helpful.  I appreciate it.

Let me ask this...

Does Homeq own my note or just have rights to servicing?

If they don't own it.  Can my refi company contact the true owner and get payoff from them?  And deal directly with them?

How do I find any of this out?  QRW??  Thanks in advance.

Quote 0 0
If you are worried about the payoff figure from HomeEQ.

I would send the payment within the grace period allowed.  Find that date in your  mortgage contract.

Just say you have waited for the hello letter as long as possible without
the payment being outside the grace period.  Something like that.

You are already late if your contract says "Due on or before the first".
They just can't charge you a late fee before the grace period runs.

You know about RESPA rules and now they know you do.

However, if they want to get nasty about it and give you a late fee assessment?  Simply pay it.  What is the late fee assessment?  $35.00.

Again, it is better to pay it and try to get your money back later.  Paying it
shows nothing against you and keeps your account from getting charged
piggyback fees that will drown you in debt. 

Personally, I would not choose to go to mortgage servicing hell for $35.00.

When and if they charge you a late fee.  Pay it and send another RESPA.
You have incorrectly charged me a late fee within the first 60 days when
you failed to provide me with a hello letter as required under RESPA.

Please apply this $35.00 to extra principal payment.

You can't really worry about being "fast tracked"  to foreclosure at this
point.  There is nothing you can do to avoid being fast tracked.

Please understand people get fast tracked for no reason at all not because of any action they've taken.

My servicer put a target on my back.  They pulled every trick in the mortgage servicers handbook to get that first late payment on me.

What you want to do is set them up so that your hands are clean for as long as you have to deal with them.

We aren't going anywhere.

Your questions are good and you've been a lot of excellent information that has worked for certain individuals.  None of us can say what worked for us will work for you. 

If you don't have enough info just yet, how about reading the one lawsuit
against a servicer that was settled.  United States of America v Fairbanks
Capital Corp.  It was filed by the FTC-HUD and Curry, et al.

There is an excellent complaint that outlines the fraud although it is called
deceptive practices.

The settlement agreement outlines "Best Practices"  This will educate


Quote 0 0
Joe B

     I think Navyman's question about a payoff amount is because he is trying to refinance (Navyman, don't let me get of course here), not the amount to pay this month. Since he wants to refinance, he is going to need a payoff figure from HomeEq, the previous servicer, or someone. I think that was his question. So, let me try to answer...

     Since I think you said you have it all lined up, let the loan officer figure it out! Not to sound goofy, but that's how they earn their commission. I suspect he is going to have a hard time, because many servicers delay, provide incomplete answers, different numbers, and otherwise provide a moving target so you can't get a straight answer. If you can't get a figure to pay-off, you can't refinance away from them!!

     You shouldn't worry about this yet, because the nearest target is the monthly payment; your refinance is still over-the-horizon.

     So, get the monthly payment squared away, start the refinance, and see what happens. If it gets FUBAR, reach back out to us, and we can help you through it!

Quote 0 0
Thanks for everything.  I will keep you posted.  Things are set in motion.
Keep checking back I may need more help.  Thanks.

Anchors Aweigh!!
Quote 0 0
Hello Navyman it's outrageous,  treasonous  in my opinion for the government to allow the financial criminals to take service  members homes after they risked their lives to protect this country and our right to own homes and be free.

These crooks have taken away homes from active duty members in violation of the soldiers and sailors act and they are more than glad to go after veterans as well.

Hammer on these crooks to follow procedures and make sure everything is in writing and carefully logged and documented and  hopefully everything will be  O.K.  while you are getting refied with a reputable lender.

Quote 0 0

First - take a deep breath and resist the temptation to talk to them on the phone.

Sending communications with the payment to a processor ("lockbox") instead of the servicer is a sure way to not only get the letter ignored (extracted and tossed into the round file) but may also delay processing of the payment - deliberately or otherwise.

If you haven't been to a lockbox operation (I have), you have to realize they are taking thousands of envelopes in batches, putting them into a series of machines and waiting to see what comes out. And one run might be company XYZ and the next ABC and so on all night.

Some large percentage of envelopes (the ones that the machines are designed to open and extract the payment coupon and check from that) get through.

Guess what doesn't automatically go through and gets sent into a bin for further manual re-processing?

1 - Anything that the machine can't find a bar-coded payment coupon in.
2 - Anything that has another unreadable piece of paper in it.
3 - Anything that doesn't have a check in it.
4 - Anything that the machine can't open or that is destroyed along the way (i.e., if something was stapled to it).

A machine operator or handler probably doesn't know what a RESPA QWR letter is and looks at the cheat-sheet of instructions on what to do with anything that looks like it doesn't belong.  "Hmmm, what is this?  Let's see, a letter.  What does the cheat sheet say to do with letters?  Oh, yea, put them in the pile with anything else that came in that we don't know what to do with."

So in with the gum wrappers, hand-scribbled notes on yellow-lined paper, semi-destroyed checks with something stapled to them, business cards (you wouldn't believe what some people put in there), etc., goes your letter. And in the following days, someone might sort through it all.

Then again, they may just send it to the shredder, and those instructions "DO NOT SEND CORRESPONDENCE TO THIS ADDRESS" protects them from any liability.

Now, conversely, if you send a payment to their office/cashiering directly, it obviously first arrives in the infamous mailroom, gets sorted (how many times a day?), and if they know where it's supposed to go without opening it, somebody physically makes a mail delivery run - theoretically the same day.  And if they don't know where it's supposed to go (no "attention ________" on the outside), now somebody has to open it and that person decides where it's supposed to go.

You get the picture? 

Sure, if there's a check in it and a payment coupon that's probably a pretty easy-to-handle decision.  Those probably go to cashiering.  But what if cashiering isn't in the same place?

And now your payment, coupon and RESPA QWR as well as your financial fate is in the hands of a clerical-level mail sorter.

IF it gets to where it's supposed to go, it may be another day or two before the intended recipient gets the part or parts they're supposed to get and does what's supposed to be done with it - or not.

SO, the Moose recommendation is don't mix them. One thing that will happen when they get a well-crafted QWR is a realization that you know how to handle issues. And, since it costs them more in resources to handle a letter than even a dozen of your phone calls, they'll probably start paying more attention.  That doesn't mean the predators will play nice, but they'll have a much more difficult path because it will be formally documented instead of little codes and notes from conversations.


Quote 0 0
Write a reply...