Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
Articles |The FORUM |Law Library |Videos | Fraudsters & Co. |File Complaints |How they STEAL |Search MSFraud |Contact Us
Frankie
Just an alert to all who post here (not that Mr. Roper and others don't say it enough), Dave Krieger reports that his sources told him banks have stepped up IT departments to monitor sites for information about borrowers. Be careful about giving out personal information or case identifiers that would allow the banks to know your strategy or weaknesses...at ANY forum. I am sure they watch here first because of the quality of information we get. Mr. Roper is probably required reading every morning!

I am not sure if IT could locate IP addresses or other ways to identify posters. Does anyone else know about that?
Quote 0 0
Frankie
Oops, I need to clarify this: a poster claiming to be Dave Krieger made this statement today. I do not know if it is the Dave Krieger who wrote Clouded Titles.
Quote 0 0
It is very easy for someone to subpoena that information.

Quote 0 0
George Burns
Unfortunately it is NOT so easy since most of us do not work for Law Enforcement agencies. It would be much better if you read what you are linking before posting.

The items in the link are for Law Enforcement people only. They are not for the general public, so not everyone can use them.

From the link:

Facebook Law Enforcement Guidelines

This document describes procedures law enforcement authorities should follow to request data

from Facebook.

This document is CONFIDENTIAL and intended for law enforcement use only. Please do not

redistribute it without the express written permission of Facebook.

Facebook services continuously change and the company may modify these policies without

notice. This version was released in May, 2010. Contact Facebook at subpoena@facebook.com

to request the latest version of these guidelines.

Quote 0 0
Actually, what I linked to is an attorney's post giving direction on how to properly subpoena social media sites. 

Anyone can subpoena records from social networks.  The links provide contact information for issuing subpoenas.  I am a paralegal who has subpoenaed MySpace, FaceBook, Yahoo Groups, and other sites in cases.  You do not need to be in Law Enforcement.  I know all too well how easy it is get this information.  

Not only that, but a paralegal working in a law firm can "Print Screen" a post, draft a declaration, and attach the document to a pleading to be used as evidence.  Something I have done also.  I have been in court to testify that the "Print Screen" image is accurate.  Most of the time, the poster does not object because they know it is an accurate representation.
Quote 0 0
Bill
I think you are giving the Servicers more credit than they deserve.  While it would be pretty stupid to post your real name, live pleadings, or very distinct identifying information, to suggest that the Servicers are trolling the Internet for IP addresses and trying to connect them to litigants in a particular case is really paranoid.   I have seen some problems in cases in my jurisdiction where information posted to things like Face book WAS uses in a prosecution, but there is a HUGE distinction between having a personal web page on some server and posting questions and thoughts anonymously on a public forum.

There also is a question of WHO is using the IP address to connect to the Internet.  Just because something is posted from an IP address does not clarify WHO posted it.  Especially for people with wireless Internet that fail to use encryption (not as uncommon as people think even with businesses). 

A quick Google search will show many criminal cases where someone's Internet connection was used for criminal activity because of their failure to use encryption.  After a brief investigation, these people were cleared of any charges.

For those that are REALLY paranoid, there are free programs that will change your IP address every 10-15 mins.  I have used them from time to time for reasons OTHER than to hide my identity but they will have that effect. 


Quote 0 0
Bill
Alina Virani wrote:
Actually, what I linked to is an attorney's post giving direction on how to properly subpoena social media sites. 

Anyone can subpoena records from social networks.  The links provide contact information for issuing subpoenas.  I am a paralegal who has subpoenaed MySpace, FaceBook, Yahoo Groups, and other sites in cases.  You do not need to be in Law Enforcement.  I know all too well how easy it is get this information.  

Not only that, but a paralegal working in a law firm can "Print Screen" a post, draft a declaration, and attach the document to a pleading to be used as evidence.  Something I have done also.  I have been in court to testify that the "Print Screen" image is accurate.  Most of the time, the poster does not object because they know it is an accurate representation.

I'm sure you can get a subpoena for things like MySpace, FaceBook, ect.. where people have websites/pages that can easily show the owner/users identity.  In regards to a public, nation wide forum, that requires no registration, I just don't see that happening.  There is a limit to things like subpoenas and discovery.  That's why people move the court to quash a subpoena.

Quote 0 0
Changing IPs doesn't work because your IP tracks whatever number you have for service. It is traceable to your general location, provider and eventually you.
Quote 0 0
Bill

Alina Virani wrote:
Changing IPs doesn't work because your IP tracks whatever number you have for service. It is traceable to your general location, provider and eventually you.

The way to change your IP address is to use a 3rd party service.  You are using the Internet to access the 3rd party server, then the 3rd party server connects to the websites you would like to access switching server IP addresses when ever it updates information from the website.  In even more advanced services (that you pay for) this process can be over 4 or 5 servers before hitting a web page.  This is what hackers and the less desirable people use to hide their identity and transactions.  IF you attempted to track the information back to the originator WHILE THEY WERE CONNECTED it is possible but I have never seen ANYONE accomplish this EXCEPT the U.S. Government.  The companies that offer these services all base their services overseas.  They really don't care about a civil subpoena and many times don't care about a criminal subpoena. 

While using one of these services, if you sent a subpoena to MS Fraud and obtained an IP address, it would be the address of the server overseas.  You could then try to get a subpoena for this company overseas (and they will refuse to give you anything) but if you were successful, you would only get the IP address of ANOTHER server in a different country overseas.  It's a losing battle that I have only seen fought by the government in large criminal cases.  My guess is it would far exceed the value of a home to find the originator using these services IF it was at all possible by a civil court. 

Not bad for 40.00 a month.   

Quote 0 0
Willam A. Roper, Jr.
I think that each of the participants in this thread has contributed some valuable information to the conversation!

I recall an instance several years ago when a person from a relatively small Ohio county and a unique first name appeared at the Forum and posted just a little very specific information, to include the identity of the original lender, the name of the servicer, the county in which the subject property was located and the time frame of either the commencement of suit or the date of origination of the original loan.

Her county had its docket information and the land records online.

It took me about ten minutes to rather conclusively establish her identity and to identify the specific mortgage, property and law suit.  I then sent her an e-mail with these details, encouraging her to be a little more cautious in her posts (and also identifying the defects in the forged assignment).

Of course, she was a little spooked by this, as well she should be.

Note that I found this Forum participant WITHOUT any subpoena or necessity of obtaining the server records or IP addresses.

If your true first name is "Englebert" and you live in a sparsely populated place, it is probably unsound to appear online using "Englebert" as your handle and then to post information such as "my property is in Pecos county, Texas", and one of ten other residents of the county, "the Constable "Jim Bob", served me this afternoon when I stopped into the General Store".

If it turns out that Pecos county records are online, it will be easy to find you!  OR we could just call over to the General Store to find out if Englebert is still out front playing checkers.

A search for Ebgleberts in Texas would yield sufficently few results that you could probably knock on all of their doors if you so desired.

By contrast, if you use the handle "John" or "Mary" and reveal only that your property is in California, you are probably OK, UNLESS you feel impelled to include quite a few other identifying details.  Of course, if your name is really "Englebert" and "John" is merely the cousin-in-law of your barber, then the disclosure of this information is even less risky!

I have previously suggested that borrowers exercise at least a little discipline in the information they post and share at the Forum.

While I think that George Burn's clarifying suggestion that the materials located by Alina are for law enforcement purposes is useful, Alina is certainly correct that discovery IS available in civil matters.  But the servicers and foreclosure mills rarely need to use discovery to prevail and they seldom do.  And it is difficult for them to undertake a fishing expedition at a public web site while trying to obfuscate and resist discovery themselves.  And they would need at least some arguable reason to justify the discovery, which could certainly be resisted.  And where a web site operator is out of state and the support for the discovery is thin, the likelihood that this would be pursued seems thin.

Bill's point about proxy servers and IP cloaking is also a good one.  But as a practical matter, a modicum of discipline about disclosure of specific identifying details is costless and get the participant a 90% solution.

*

But it is also interesting to note that there exist a variety of perfectly lawful techniques to obtain IP addresses without a subpoena and without even asking the server operator.  For example, I obtained Mike HANSEN's IP address when I learned of his solicitation of Forum participants.  I also obtained Chritopher Joseph's IP address in Milwaukee some time ago.  (Happily he seems to have taken his mindless banter elsewhere.)

Overall, the servicers are struggling under a crush of foreclosure litigation.  They were struggling with the volume and making a LOT of mistakes even BEFORE the robo-signing crisis.  And with falling real estate prices and borrowers energized by knowledge of the fraud, the servicers and their foreclosure mill law firms are even more beleagured.

So in my view the average borrower does NOT need to fear that the borrower's personal information is going to be detected or compromised AS LONG AS THE BORROWER EXERCISES A MODICUM OF DISCIPLINE.

*

By contrast, I think that Dave Krieger and some of his more ardent followers have a great deal to FEAR.  It is readily apparent that several criminal enterprises are using Krieger's book as support to run various "debt elimination scams".  Whether this is with or without Krieger's knowledge or cooperation is UNCLEAR. 

Similarly, the are indications that criminal enterprises running debt elimination scams are also making use of Neil Garfield's site and his materials.  Again, whether Mr. Garfield is merely an unwitting pawn in these schemes, or whether he is encouraging these scams is UNCLEAR.

I didn't go out looking for the people running these scams.  They appeared at the Forum and began seeking to defraud regular Forum participants.

Although there are indications that both Krieger and Garfield have used various services to cloak their involvement in certain enterprises, it also appears that they may both be very naive about just how easy it is going to be to roll up the entire network, when they use the Internet to communicate and distribute information.

My suspicion is that those who are directly peddling the debt elimination scams are even less sophisticated.  It took me less than thirty minutes to obtain the IP addresses of both Mike HANSEN and Christopher JOSEPH without a subpoena.

Social networking and the Internet can be a great means of marketing.  Law enforcement is only just beginning to scratch the surface of the possibilities.

One of the very funniest things is going to be to watch precisely what happens when an attorney is criminally charged in respect of some of the larger debt elimination scams.  Let me give you a CLUE.  The attorney will squeal like a PIG and immediately give up ANYONE who is doing business with them in order to get a better deal!

Quote 0 0
William A. Roper, Jr.
See also:

 

"A CAUTION Regarding Posting or Communication of Personal Information"

http://ssgoldstar.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2393700

Quote 0 0
Thank you Mr. Roper.  I agree that being exceptionally prudent with one's personal identifying information is a must.  As I stated earlier, it is very easy to locate persons who frequent social media sites and forums.  

Interesting that you bring up the subject of an attorney.  I worked on an international case 4 years ago where the attorney (CA licensed) was committing fraud on the court.  A search in cyberspace provided evidence of his fraud.  I was able to track him down to a Yahoo Groups where he boasted of what he had done and offered advice to other attorneys.  The magistrate in charge of the investigation has recommended that this attorney not only be sanctioned but also be disbarred.  His case is pending before the California Bar.

From my own personal experience (without getting into specifics), while my case was active, the attorney for MERS and the servicer were "stalking" me.   Servicers and banks do troll the internet for information to use against you.  They be be busy fabricating and forging documents but they have HB Gary in their back pocket and will use them whenever necessary.
Quote 0 0
Lucky
Bill wrote:
Alina Virani wrote:
Changing IPs doesn't work because your IP tracks whatever number you have for service. It is traceable to your general location, provider and eventually you .

The way to change your IP address is to use a 3rd party service.  You are using the Internet to access the 3rd party server, then the 3rd party server connects to the websites you would like to access switching server IP addresses when ever it updates information from the website.  In even more advanced services (that you pay for) this process can be over 4 or 5 servers before hitting a web page.  This is what hackers and the less desirable people use to hide their identity and transactions.  IF you attempted to track the information back to the originator WHILE THEY WERE CONNECTED it is possible but I have never seen ANYONE accomplish this EXCEPT the U.S. Government.  The companies that offer these services all base their services overseas.  They really don't care about a civil subpoena and many times don't care about a criminal subpoena.  While using one of these services, if you sent a subpoena to MS Fraud and obtained an IP address, it would be the address of the server overseas.  You could then try to get a subpoena for this company overseas (and they will refuse to give you anything) but if you were successful, you would only get the IP address of ANOTHER server in a different country overseas.  It's a losing battle that I have only seen fought by the government in large criminal cases.  My guess is it would far exceed the value of a home to find the originator using these services IF it was at all possible by a civil court.  Not bad for 40.00 a month.   


In other words use a proxy server.

TOR is free.

https://www.torproject.org/
Quote 0 0
Bob
Dave Krieger is a scam artist promoting Quiet Title scams. It is unclear why anyone would revive this thread. I suspect that it was done by one of Mr. Dave Krieger's confederates to help raise awareness and to promote his mischief.
Quote 0 0
Lucky
Bob wrote:
Dave Krieger is a scam artist promoting Quiet Title scams. It is unclear why anyone would revive this thread. I suspect that it was done by one of Mr. Dave Krieger's confederates to help raise awareness and to promote his mischief.


I was reading Mr. Roper's posts.

I responded to the proxy discussion because I agree with the benefits of anonymity when appropriate.

TOR is a good, free proxy.

It's as simple as that.



Quote 0 0
Write a reply...