Mortgage Servicing Fraud
occurs post loan origination when mortgage servicers use false statements and book-keeping entries, fabricated assignments, forged signatures and utter counterfeit intangible Notes to take a homeowner's property and equity.
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Hello there,
this questions is directed to the seniors posters here, you know

"William Roper", "Ka", "t", "Bill", and much others that escapes mind right now:


the question is:

If a borrower that lives in NY, receives a Loan Mod offer, and has told the lender that it objects certain paragraphs, and the lender keeps sending the same loan mod within the same paragraphs unchanged, then can the borrower sign the loan mod WITH SOME SORT OF OBJECTION refreed to specific paragraphs?

Is there ANY supposrting law that allows thw borrower to do that

for example:

in the space provided for signing the borrower will put her/his signature, followed by an "objection" to paragraphs "x", "xx","xxx", ect

and / or make an extra piece of paper ("a rider?"), where says that the borrower agree to sign the contract , objecting ANy FUTURE EVENT THAT MAY INCREASE THE MONTHLY PAYMENT, or any other future payment?


your valuable input is   U R G E N T L Y   required, thanks
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I'm not a senior member but I just wanted to say that I feel for you.  Have you sent your objections in writing or just verbally like over the phone?  If over the phone then perhaps that why your objections are being ignored?

Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck and I wish I had more to offer, but I just don't.  Sorry.

Hopefully, some, at least one, of the senior/knowledgeable members will chime in.

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C'mon guys
this is not an unreasonable question

Need help here
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texas
It is a reasonable question that should be presented to counsel.
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topguncrdtadvsr
I doubt it. When you created your debt you agreed to certain terms in writing. Any modification of those terms are supposed to be considered a blessing. They won't let you dictate the changes within their paragraphs that I'm aware of. If you sign a mod without an attorney your basically agreeing to what their putting in writing to you. And signing off on your defenses to their shenanigans most likely presented to you upon origination then thru out the servicing onto the foreclosure. Most likely the most they will do is put your arrears at the end of your note with nothing for the fraud brought upon most people. 

However, if you can find a good attorney and use the court process you may have a chance. But court is not an inexpensive process. There are attorneys a dime a dozen that have no problem taking one's money to do nothing more but encourage the fraud. So then you have to decide how you wish to fight them. Foreclosure is a State court process. They can be fought in State court. However, they can also be brought to task in Federal Court
.

 In either case you have to present yourself in the best light. Without the mod can you pay? How far behind are you? Is there other things that will keep you from keeping up with this payment? Or is this just one part of the issue? What avenue may help you the most is the question? Have you talked with an attorney? Do you have a grasp on your other debts? Are you employed? Or soon to be? Has the hardship that brought on the need for modification been rectified already? Have you researched any of the information surrounding this information? There is alot of stuff to know. Its not a cake walk that's for sure.

If you can stay out of court you might be better off. Then again if you have adequate knowledge and  or a attorney you may have a fighting chance. Don't let them deter you from making a future for you and your family. Most here will do their best to advise being legal counsel or not. This is basic financial questions most every American needs to think about in trying to rectify business matters today.

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Thanks for the input

I think I saw few months ago the implementing of a law, or ordinace, local law etc, related  to loan modifications, where the servicers are prohibited
to put in the Loan Mod any clausule where they will get "immunity" to future
lawsuits in connection with the Loan...

I just dont remember the scope...where can I find it?
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t

Quote:
the question is:

If a borrower that lives in NY, receives a Loan Mod offer, and has told the lender that it objects certain paragraphs, and the lender keeps sending the same loan mod within the same paragraphs unchanged, then can the borrower sign the loan mod WITH SOME SORT OF OBJECTION refreed to specific paragraphs?

Is there ANY supposrting law that allows thw borrower to do that

 

The question suggests a fundamental misunderstanding about the essence of contracts.

 

I would suggest that you read some of the basics on contract law.  You might start with this exposition at Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

 

Generally speaking, a contract requires offer and acceptance.

 

If A offers to sell his Buick to B for $1,000, B can either accept the offer, in which case a contract comes into being, or reject the offer.  If B does not agree and accede to the terms proposed by A in A's offer, B can always decline and make a counteroffer.  But B cannot simply unilaterally alter the proposed terms of A's offer and accept based upon altered terms.

 

This is not merely a matter of law, but is also based upon common sense and fairness.

 

Suppose that A offers to purchase B's Palomino mare, a saddle and bridle for $5,000.  Can B accept A's offer, while omitting the mare and saddle from the agreement binding A to the purchase of the bridle only for $5,000?  Such a proposition is preposterous and intuitively we know that this cannot be the basis for a contract.  To contract means to agree.

 

So if a servicer presents a modification agreement to a borrower, even an offensive and oppressive agreement, the borrower is presented with the choice of accepting the modification offer, rejecting the offer, or making a counter-offer.

 

As a practical matter, the servicer will almost never agree to a modification on terms other than those appearing in the standard oppressive offer.  The only time that an agreement might be reached on other than standard oppressive terms is when the Lender is truly over a barrel, which is quite rare

 

It should also be noted that while a modification agreement is often presented as if it is an offer, it almost never IS an offer.  This is because the modification agreement itself will usually call for the the signature of both the borrower and the Lender/mortgage investor.  But the servicer will almost NEVER sign the agreement in advance.

 

Presenting an unsigned agreement to the borrower is not actually an offer at all, but rather the solicitation by the servicer of an offer by the borrower on the terms set forth within the agreement.  That is, since the agreement is not signed by the servicer, no agreement comes into being when the agreement is executed by the borrower.  Instead, the borrower is making an offer to the lender.  The lender then puts the unsigned agreement (executed by the borrower) in the loan file.  This may not be a valid acceptance of the agreement.

 

There is much contract case law showing that an offer can be accepted by the counterparty's actions, rather than merely executing the agreement.  That is, when the servicer begins accepting payments based upon the written modification agreement, the borrower has at least some good argument that the servicer accepted the offer.  But the written provisions of the modification agreement itself may say otherwise and court may be required to respect the intentions of the parties as expressly shown in the written modification agreement.

 

*

 

The entire discussion about the possibility of agreeing to the modification agreement while rejecting or repudiating some of the terms is nonsensical.  That dog wont hunt.  But even more basic, the modification agreement often commits the mortgage investor/servicer to NOTHING AT ALL, because most borrowers are too foolish to realize that without the agreement being signed by the servicer, there IS NO AGREEMENT.  

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t

Quote:
I think I saw few months ago the implementing of a law, or ordinace, local law etc, related to loan modifications, where the servicers are prohibited
to put in the Loan Mod any clausule where they will get "immunity" to future
lawsuits in connection with the Loan...
 

There are Federal guidelines associated with what waivers or confessions can appear in a HAMP modification. 

 

Generally, parties are free to contract and modify their contracts.  Absent some guidelines for a particular sponsored program like HAMP, borrower protections are few.  In most places, lenders can write modification agreements which are extremely oppressive and these will be enforced by the courts.

 

Consult the statutes and cases of your jurisdiction and ask an experienced attorney specializing in consumer debt.

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That's what I am talking about   

   A whole new level

Thank You for your time, dedication and Passion to help others

The Karma will reward you in one way or another
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Moose
51B - understand that this isn't legal advice, but generally speaking, in order to effectively modify the terms, both parties must execute the same agreement.

Also - when dealing with unscrupulous servicers, I would caution that ANY final page with signatures could be easily attached to an agreement you would not have agreed to. In such cases, I would re-draft the agreement such that each and every page have a bottom-of-page space for the party's initials.

Moose


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Steve

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Also - when dealing with unscrupulous servicers, I would caution that ANY final page with signatures could be easily attached to an agreement you would not have agreed to. In such cases, I would re-draft the agreement such that each and every page have a bottom-of-page space for the party's initials.

 

I have even seen in house modification agreements which contain a provision wherein the borrower agrees to execute whatever additional documents (containing details or additional elaborating terms) are furnished later.  In short, the borrower is asked to agree to terms which are not identified and therefore are unknown to the borrower.

 

This is WHY it is critical to take any proposed modification agreement to a really competent attorney specializing in consumer debt issues.

 

As has been pointed out by others, the modification agreement is rarely a vehicle for avoiding foreclosure.  Rather, from the perspective of the servicer, this is an opportunity to clean up its case, obtain various admissions, waivers and confessions to speed the forthcoming foreclosure.  Generally, this tactic is more common in judicial foreclosure states, since non-judicial foreclosure by private sale can usually be quickly accomplished without any confessions, admissions or waivers.

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"I have even seen in house modification agreements which contain a provision wherein the borrower agrees to execute whatever additional documents (containing details or additional elaborating terms) are furnished later.  In short, the borrower is asked to agree to terms which are not identified and therefore are unknown to the borrower.
 
This is WHY it is critical to take any proposed modification agreement to a really competent attorney specializing in consumer debt issues.
 
As has been pointed out by others, the modification agreement is rarely a vehicle for avoiding foreclosure.  Rather, from the perspective of the servicer, this is an opportunity to clean up its case, obtain various admissions, waivers and confessions to speed the forthcoming foreclosure.  Generally, this tactic is more common in judicial foreclosure states, since non-judicial foreclosure by private sale can usually be quickly accomplished without any confessions, admissions or waivers."

important posting!

So....imagine for a moment that it will be all bad news for the borrower...in this scenario...Can the borrower (if qualify), apply and get a chapter 13 bankruptcy, then you know, FILE an  the "AP"?


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